It surprises, and despite my best efforts, irritates me just how casually many English left-leaning types support Scottish independence and a second referendum, without apparently having given it more than the most cursory thought

There are clearly arguments to be made as to why a second referendum is not justified. Those include the fact that we had a referendum less than 10 years ago, that interpreting ‘ mandates’ is never clear, that pro-union parties secured more than 50% of the vote...

And that support for independence is below 50% in the polls and falling. It should be obvious that the ‘normal rules’ are suspended when it comes to the question of breaking up a nation.

It should be obvious that, absent clear U.K. rules, we default to the careful use of referendum, and that there is a good reason why states rarely allow questions on breaking them up to be put,and to do so infrequently

If any one wants to claim this is a democratic outrage, then I’d be glad if they can supply a list of states that allow referenda on breaking them up to be held regularly, on timescales only a decade apart, when separatist parties command less than 50% of the vote and polls show.

Less than 50% support to break away. It seems obvious to me there should be extended and significant support for break up, at least 60% and for an extended period, and certainly not 50%+1

Why? Well putting aside the specific economic and fiscal consequences of Scottish independence, which are of course disastrous ( and which focus groups show independence supporters do not understand or believe- stoked by a mendacious Yes campaign in 2014)

We want to be sure this would be the settled will of the Scottish people, and not dependant on passing political actors, trends or issues. But why? After all, we accept normal political rules for most things? Sturgeon and the SNP got 49% of the vote- surely that’s enough?

For most issues yes, for breaking up a nation, no. Remember how asymmetric this is. Those wanting to separate will gladly have as many referenda as you will grant them, and glad accept 50%+1. They only have to win once. For them, as they have made repeatedly clear..l

They don’t accept defeat- if you win one, they just regroup and go again. Brexit was just the excuse, as many independence supporters made clear before the 2016 vote

For pro-U.K. supporters it’s very different. We respect the result and so any loss is total, and final. We won’t come back asking again, we’d have to accept it. No one thinks a vote to leave can be reversed. In that way, it’s very different to Brexit- which may well eventually be

So, when pro-U.K. supporters ask those in the U.K. who take it for granted Sturgeon should be given free reign, to stop and think, please consider why. Don’t label us afraid, or anti-democratic. As I hope this thread shows, we’re the ones who take referenda seriously

We’re the ones who accept the result as binding- we don’t have multiple opportunities to ‘go again’. We passionately support membership of the U.K. but we’d accept the result. So understand us when we ask for thoughtful and fair process on this...