Okay because I've waded into this I feel compelled to say that YES DEMONIC CULTIVATION IS ACTUALLY BAD. NO IT IS NOT JUST UNWARRANTED STIGMA.

(1) It's grave desecration which is unethical in Chinese culture

(2) It's bad for the body and mind because it goes against the nature https://twitter.com/asideoftrashpl1/status/1390704443906138118

These are the points raised by LQR when WWX first mentions it in chapter 14. Firstly, he says that it's unethical. Secondly, he says that it goes against the natural order. I'll explain this one at a time.

(1) GRAVE DESECRATION

Ancestral "worship" as people like to call it in English (I disagree with the translation) is really important in Chinese culture. BURIALS ARE REALLY FUCKING IMPORTANT.

A lot of major Chinese festivals are centered around paying respects to or ensuring the peace of the departed, which includes things like tomb sweeping, burning of paper money, and other rites.

This is because in the Chinese conception of souls, we are believed to have three hun and seven (sometimes six) po. The po dissipate very quickly upon death as they are tied to the mortal body, but the hun stay on.

One hun goes down into the underworld to be judged for its wrongdoings and goes on to be reincarnated.

ANOTHER hun stays on with the body, usually around the grave or ancestral tablet, and is the soul that descendents and living loved ones pay respects to.

When you disturb someone's grave, you aren't just messing with an empty body, there's a soul hanging around the body too because unlike in say idk Christian faith? where the soul moves on to the afterlife? In Chinese belief, there's a part of the soul that stays.

Proper burial and maintainence of the grave / ancestral hall /spirits of the deceased is thus REALLY IMPORTANT in Chinese culture.

Like there was a period of time where my whole family (extended family included) had a lot of hardships and strange illnesses

and upon returning to China we found that some decade or so back, the grave of an ancestor was moved to make way for a major highway. That was believed to be the source of all the ailments. The soul of that ancestor wasn't at peace because the grave was disturbed.

So we hired someone to do some rites, and some relatives went to give offerings at the new grave. It's important that bodies are buried whole and that the graves are not disturbed. And demonic cultivation does just that, it disturbs the dead.

On another level, which you don't need to be Chinese to understand, if you have any loved one who has passed, how would you feel if someone dug up your loved one's body, used it as a puppet in battle to be hacked at and probably dismembered by other people,

and then left out in the open amongst other dismembered dead bodies to rot without being properly buried afterwards?

Demonic cultivation is disrespectful to the dead because it often involves desecration of graves and the people that come out of them.

There's multiple times in the novel when it's mentioned (during Sunshot) or even shown (after WWX first awakens in MXY's body) that WWX has gone around digging up random people's graves. It's mentioned that LWJ and WWX got in a HUGE fight about it during Sunshot.

And that's because it's BAD. Firstly, you shouldn't be going around digging up people's graves. Secondly, as LQR says, if a soul is unable to be at peace because of resentment, you should be LIBERATING it, not using, and even INCREASING its resentment for your own purposes.

Thirdly, if the soul IS at peace, then why on earth are you calling it into battle? If it was at peace before that, could it be at peace after you've let people hack at and chop it up, and then left the dismembered pieces to rot out in the open?

I mean, I didn't actually get the impression that only resentful spirits can be reanimated through demonic cultivation, and that if a spirit is at peace, the body will just ignore the caster after being dug up.

(2) THE NATURAL ORDER

I feel when westerners see this they think about the natural order as in the biblical sense where things like being gay is unnatural. In Chinese culture it's about going against natural balance. Yin Yang. Dark and light. There's a natural balance to nature.

It's not because some God willed it to be this way. It just is. Connotations are a little different.

On one hand, the dead should stay dead and you shouldn't arouse them unnaturally. It goes against the natural order of things.

But on top of that, demonic cultivation also goes against the natural flow of the body. As a result, it's bad for the body and the mind.

I'd recommend you read this whole thread about Qi, Qi deviation, and Chinese conceptions of the human body, as is still portrayed nowadays in Traditional Chinese Medicine. https://twitter.com/asideoftrashpl1/status/1256411582130565121?s=19

In summary, qi deviation in wuxia and xianxia is usually a result of improper practice, which causes flow of the body to be distorted or reversed. Qi flows through specific channels in the body (known as meridians) and in a certain direction. If you mess that up, you get sick.

The process of qi deviation is typically a drawn out process that happens over time. It is typically believed to not just affect the body, but also the mind, causing you to become quick to anger, to be easily disoriented, or to have delusions or hallucinations.

Certain forms of cultivation are more likely to lead to qi deviation, and are thus usually seen as unorthodox. Demonic cultivation seems to be portrayed as one of them. Qinghe Nie's form is ANOTHER, which is a HUGE scandal because they are supposed to be an orthodox clan.

DEMONIC CULTIVATION PROBABLY IS GENUINELY BAD FOR THE BODY AND MIND. It's not just orthodoxy!

The prime example of this is how it's continually hinted at and pointed out to WWX that he may not have full control over what he's wrought, and that he's losing control over time.

As time goes on, WWX portrayed as growing increasingly quick to anger, arrogant, and sinister, he also grows INCREASINGLY irritable when told that he isn't in control. But at the same time, he IS losing control, and it seems to be getting worse the longer he cultivates this path.

In this conversation, he seems a little volatile to me as well. He goes from happy to ANGRY really quickly. And the ghosts around him seem to react to his anger, even without his command.

That is a sign of the SAME loss of control that killed JZX. WN reacted to his anger, rather than his command. It is only when JZX is killed that he finally admits to himself that he is losing control and that his demonic cultivation is no longer safe.

By the time the Nightless City comes, he is FULLY aware that he's out of control. And this time, it's hurt JYL.

Demonic cultivation is bad. It's not just orthodoxy. It's not just "bad because other people say it's bad but actually it's just edgy."

WWX character arc reaches its climax at the point when he finally admits to himself that he was foolish to think he could ever control it.

Demonic cultivation ruined WWX's life. It took away everything he cared about, and it destroyed the lives of the people he loved. In his second life he feels extremely guilty towards JC because he KNOWS that his refusal to admit that he was not in control cost JC everything.

And it's incredibly, incredibly sad, because the core transfer reveal turns EVERYTHING around. It shows us that there was no choice, and that maybe the hubris was also mixed up with no small amount of desperation.

After being a cultivator of high standing, demonic cultivation was the only way to continue. Without it, he would be powerless. He would be just a normal person. So in many ways, he was desperate for it to work, and he didn't want to be told that it wasn't working.

As with what I said in the thread QRTed right at the beginning, WWX is a prime example of a person who has done bad things. But at the same time, you sympathize with his story and understand his actions. https://twitter.com/asideoftrashpl1/status/1390704463527124995?s=19

And to me, that's why MDZS is so compelling, and also why it's so fucking tragic.

AND THATS ALSO WHY I THINK WE DESERVE A LONG ASS FUCKING FIX IT WHERE WWX GETS A HEALING ARC. An ACTUAL healing arc that actually deals with the past instead of him trying desperately to forget!!

Anyways I'm supposed to be on writing retreat but I came on here to blurt out this whole thing and now I'm going back to my writing.

So SHAMELESS PLUG you want a post-canon fix-it case fic that deals with WWX learning to forgive himself, give WWWW a try!
https://archiveofourown.org/works/23471386/chapters/56271106

And now I'm going back to my writing. Bye guys!!!

I fucked up the order of the replies so there's one set of screens that are hidden. I feel the one on the right is really heartbreaking. It shows the moment when WWX realizes that his hubris is his downfall, that he's been ignoring all the warning signs. https://twitter.com/asideoftrashpl1/status/1390736442909884421?s=19