Hot Tubs/Yoga Streams/TOS

A thread

Im approaching this conversation with the most tact and the lowest amount of drama I can manage. I want to be fair. After exploring the topic on stream I’ve come to a conclusion that I think will be helpful to the exhausting conversation. 1/13

Quick Background: The other day I posted a thread that had very little push back on the subject. The amount of positive interaction by both men AND women showed that people understood the point I made and generally agreed. Read it below but know this thread continues here 2/13 https://twitter.com/dabesjared/status/1387071086450204676

A lot of people understood. Except for one person who I could possibly fairly call an NPC. He could NOT see the conversation in front of him and kept repeating the same line. He wanted to make a point but everyone else was miles past it. And it made me realize something: 3/13

This conversation is not between two parties.

It is between THREE groups that say the following:

#1 “hot tub streamers are stealing my views/ are hoes/ are evil”

#2 “No they are not! You are misogynistic/pathetic/etc.”

#3 “The current wave of streams violates TOS”

4/13

Let’s explore these.

The first group is your classic internet troll and should be ignored/shouted down/mocked. Which is exactly what the second group is doing. That’s fine. Group 2 is correct in their evaluation of 1. The actual problem is that currently when group 3 voices 5/13

their specific concerns group 2 automatically assumes they are group 1. This is literally why the conversation isn’t progressing. Group 2 CANNOT believe that people actually care about TOS. They assume it is a veiled attack on women. And I want to explain why TOS matters. 6/13

Hot tub streams are not new. They have actually existed for years and the majority of the time they have been within TOS. I want to point out that group 1 ALWAYS complained about them. But it never mattered. So why all of the sudden is this all a big deal? 7/13

Because the new wave of popular hot tub/yoga streamers are actually specifically violating the TOS. Before it could be said “they are within the rules.” No reasonable person cared. But currently that is not the case. And THAT is why group 3 now exists. But why do they care? 8/13

Because the TOS is a protective hedge and we all know it. It says “you can go this far but no further”. It stops streamers from fostering racist communities and if they do it allows those outside of those communities to have a rule to point to that holds them to account. 9/13

So how does that apply to the current streams? Well old hot tub streams still had sexy women. No one reasonable person complained about that. But new ones have cameras on crotches. Pornhub commands. Onlyfans links. Those are literal TOS violations. The heart of it is this: 10/13

If you want to hold pewdiepie accountable for saying racist terms and use the TOS to do so, you don’t get to ignore the TOS. You have to respect to whole thing (or change it). You effectively remove its strength if you pick and choose. That is group 3s point. 11/13

And group 2 keeps yelling “misogyny” at them. They cannot see that group 3 didn’t care about TOS compliant hot tub streams. It is TOS violating streams they are fighting against. I’m one of these people. It would be insane to call me a misogynist. But some NPC here will. 12/13

If Twitch were to hold these streamers to account and the hot tub/yoga streams followed TOS I fully support their right to do so. But as long as people are defending them they are in principle deciding the TOS doesn’t matter and that means they can’t hold anyone to account. 13/13

Bonus: don’t be an NPC. This is an honest position and not a cover for any other motive. I’ve never complained about these streams until this wave. My stream is growing, I make enough to live on it. I’m not threatened by others success. I just know the TOS matters.