Something I forgot to talk aobut on the episode was the idea of modesty at the dinner table in ancient Rome. https://twitter.com/worldbuildcast/status/1387489298732265473

When we think of Roman banquets, we think of everyone lounging on couches, usually in sets of three around a central table, yeah? That's the image from paintings and movies.

But that wasn't always the norm.

For one thing, it was only ever the way the upper classes ate. Poor people didn't have that much room in their houses to waste on a whole separate room with furniture just for dining.

But where this intersects with ideas of modesty is who was allowed to recline and when.

Initially, reclining to dine was an Etruscan custom. The Romans viewed it with suspicion, as they did many of the Etruscans' other more liberal behaviors.

(The Etruscans were pretty wild, y'all. They had idas about sex, gender, and matrimony that were highly unusual for the ancient Mediterranean)

When the custom did migrate to Rome, blending with things taken from the Greek symposium, initially it was only men who were allowed to recline. For women to do so was considered improper.

I made a joke about this in FROM UNSEEN FIRE; the elderly Appia Crispinia cracks that in her day it was considered "fast" for women to recline -- and she reclined plenty!

By the late Republic and early Empire, it wasn't scandalous for women to recline anymore, though some might still choose to sit upright. (I imagine some men probably did, too; at a certain age, lying down to eat probably lost its appeal or feasibility, no matter your gender).

But this is a good example of how our views on these things shift over time, and how they can be variable even within one society at one time. What's immodest or improper for one person isn't necessarily for the person next to them.

omg this thread has so many typos, sorry

I just cleaned the bathroom and my fingers are a little numb, so I'm not typing well.