The German newspaper @welt published a new interview w/ #Egypt's president Al- #Sisi a few days ago. While some of the questions were posed in a really smart way, others were outright invitations for talking points on #MB #migration #development. A thread https://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/plus230623811/Aegyptens-Praesident-El-Sisi-Wie-ich-die-Leute-im-Elend-leben-lassen-kann.html

This starts with the 2nd question in the interview "Does Europe not sufficiently appreciate your efforts to stop illegal migration?" Tellingly, Sisi answers by affirming Egypt's role in stopping illegal migration by establishing a "climate of security and stability" /2

He goes on that, Egypt was "not asking Europe for anything in return." Nor was it "even thinking of using this for political or economic blackmail" - only to do precisely this, in the following sentence, by stressing how Egypt was harboring 6 Mio. refugees atm /3

The interview then takes a turn toward the topic of Islamism. The Welt is not known for its friendly stance vis-a-vis MB, so no suprise that the interviewer refers to Mursi as member of an organisation "still seen by many in Europe as a legitimate voice of conservative Islam" /4

This gives Sisi the chance to reproduce the myth of the two revolutions. Ironically, he adds "the people can rise a third or fourth time if they disagree with the governance" (as if they hadn't tried) completely denying the restrictive effect of protest and emergency laws /5

In the next question, the interviewers refer to reports by IOs, according to which the presidential elections were not free nor fair - w/o adopting this narrative themeselves, however: instead, the Welt-team refers to these reports as if their validity was in question. /6

International observers, acc. to Welt, said that competitors had been kidnapped and pressured to withdraw their candidacy. "How do you respond to such accusations?," the newspaper asks /7

Which throws the ball in Al-Sisi's court. He is left to stress how Egypt had, from day one of the election preparations, "called for journalists and organisations to accompany the process to ensure that the elections were conducted properly." /8

Of course, this doesn't answer the question, but refers to the international election observers who had praised the elections in 2018. E.g. here. /9 https://twitter.com/MfaEgypt/status/980776181925601287

He ends w/ insinuations of an international conspiracy against Egypt, and by asking the newspaper's audience for trust: "Listen to us for once and don't always believe only those mouthpieces who paint a negative image of Egypt" -again, his reply remains unchallenged /10

Up next is a rather smart question by the interviewing team. Knowing that the known figures about political prisoners are outdated + disputed by the Egyptian government, the @welt asks Sisi why no official statistics about political prisoners existed in Egypt /11

Lacking a compelling answer, the president tries to deflect by claiming that Egypt did "not even have that many prisons that could hold that many prisoners" - a claim that is laughable given the known investments into the prison system (see https://www.madamasr.com/en/2021/04/13/news/u/study-35-new-prisons-ordered-built-in-egypt-in-last-10-years/) /12

Unfortunately, the interviewing team does not confront him there, but instead, Sisi is left to continue with his well-known story that the struggle against the Brotherhood still was an existential one-and necessary to prevent a civil war /13

The negative impression about the human rights situation, democracy and freedom in Egypt were merely the result of the group's manipulation and machinations...

In what follows, it is remarkable how the interviewers, while trying to get back to the Q about political prisoners /14

..nonetheless adopt Al-Sisi's framing of the Brotherhood as terrorists by referring to the group as "Islamist extremists". Quite revealing of the interviewers' own stance - especially given that they had earlier stressed how "many in Europe" regarded the MB as conservatives /15

Anyway, the interviewers then point to Alaa Abdel Fatah's pretrial detention as an example that "gave the impression that in Egypt you are locked up if you criticise the president" trying to move the conversation away from the MB /16

Which succeeds: Al-Sisi now is in his game, giving talking points about the need for opposition to remain constructive, the importance of stability, the youth bulge facing Egypt, as well as the relevance of the rule of law /17

He deflects all criticism of the pretrial detentions by pointing to due process and the need to respect the autonomy of the courts. It is tiring at this point to keep on reading. All talking points are well known, and the interviewers could have prepared for them - BUT NO /18

Quite the contrary, they even give new keywords to the president by asking him whether this meant that "he had to balance security and freedom?" /19

What follows is the usual:

"Security should not come at the expense of freedom [...] Egypt is in a difficult situation [...] your countries have come a long way and are among the richest in the world[...] Egypt is far from that." etc. /20

This discursive strategy has been working so well for the last years in deflecting all justified criticism of conditions in Egypt - by humbling himself and stressing his aspirations to emulate the European model, Al-Sisi seems to have found a silver bullet for Western journos /21

And it also works with the Welt-team: Instead of pushing the president on these hollow phrases, they turn to Egypt's relation w/ Israel, and ask Sisi for his advice on how to better relations btw the latter and other Arab states. Sisi is now back in the saddle and left to /22

comment, out of a position of comfort, on international politics. It's almost like he's surprised himself how easy the interviewers have left him off the hook. He even laughs when he is asked about the JCPOA and whether Egypt was also seeking to acquire nuclear weapons /23

What an opportunity to turn this entire interview into a PR show: The president has a small table w/ a laptop brought in. The laptop plays a video showing the poverty of the rural population. At its end, Al-Sisi turns the table on the interviewers: /24

"And we are supposed to acquire nuclear weapons? I would have liked you to ask me how I can live here like this without changing that"

At this point, the interview is lost. Al-Sisi has masterfully played the journalists. The interview ends with him describing the challenges /25

his government faced on the socio-economic level, challenges that had persisted for 70 years w/o a solution. Moreover, he praises his attempts to build new housing for the people (the issue of displacement is one entirely unadressed by the interviewers). /26

You can almost feel how everyone is now chuckling in the room. One of the interviewers is a woman - Al.Sisi: "I am also very pleased that you are interviewing me as a woman. In Egypt, women are above everything." /27

Finally, icing on the cake:

Sisi: "Women also led the demonstrations to overthrow Mursi. [...] I asked them for help and they helped me. And with every big problem, I ask women and get the best answers."

The Welt: "All Egyptian women?" /27

Al-Sisi: "You mean the Islamist ones! See how I've got you figured out? (One must admit, he really has @welt) No, not them. But most of them. More than 90 per cent."

THE END