Paypal and Venmo are now trading in proof-of-work cryptocurrency. The virus is now fully normalized, and there is nothing now to stop its climate change contribution from growing without bound.

It is necessary to pass laws to stop use of proof-of-work cryptocurrency— now. https://twitter.com/Venmo/status/1384586589972533250

What is absolutely terrifying about Paypal and Venmo's approaches is it's not clear, if you use these services, it is *possible* to prevent someone paying you for a product or service from using cryptocoins to pay. If there's an opt out, I can't find it. Participation required.

It is morally necessary to boycott any business that holds, uses or accepts cryptocurrency. But if Paypal, Venmo and Stripe are all on board, then potentially every business in the world accepts cryptocurrency. You can't use the internet without hyperaccelerating climate change

This— the total removal of human choice, decisions being made for you by unaccountable corporates— is the problem with the Internet's payment systems being controlled by a monopoly/cartel system. Which was, hilariously, the original argument for cryptocurrency in the first place.

"The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which."

Got some explanations in replies. This is still bad, but less apocalyptic than I thought. Above I'm vague about how Venmo/Paypal crypto works, as I've been confused about how it works. Turns out that's because the way it works makes no sense and is broken https://twitter.com/thatkimparker/status/1386707024163991553

- Paypal and Venmo let you keep a crypto wallet
- You're allowed to pay for USD transactions with the crypto in your wallet— converted on demand
- But you can't move cryptocoins in or out of the wallet
- You can only buy Bitcoin from Paypal, sit on it, then sell it back to Paypal

So:
- The moral issue is present— if you accept Paypal potentially some of your transactions *are* being paid from Bitcoin
- It's still exploitative toward users: Essentially Paypal lets you use Bitcoin as a speculative investment but NOT a currency.

- The new Venmo/Paypal features won't (for now) bring about the worst-case scenario of Bitcoin becoming a normalized, unavoidable part of day to day life, because this service is so absurd no one would use it
- …BUT, at any time they could flip a switch and activate the endgame.

- Also from a "WTF USA" perspective, this is WEIRD since Paypal offers the ability to speculate on Bitcoin prices without, yourself, ever getting access to the Bitcoin. This erases the normal division between gambling (remember, Internet gambling is illegal in US) and investment.

One way to look at it is anyone participating in Paypal/Venmo's current scheme are, to little or no benefit to themselves, acting as a counterparty allowing Paypal and Venmo to— if they so choose— short Bitcoin. https://twitter.com/_TFarmer/status/1386712956176683010

If Paypal thinks the price of Bitcoin will go up they can buy Bitcoin to keep the amount of FakeBitcoin units their users currently hold covered. If they think the price of Bitcoin will fall, they can sell (or never buy) Bitcoin & when the users cash out their FakeBitcoin, profit

Note: It's being explained to me this hypothetical scheme—where Paypal could use its "Fake Bitcoin" accounts to short Bitcoin—would be potentially illegal under "Bucket Shop" laws. If it's illegal, that MIGHT mean Paypal would not actually do it and you should ignore this tangent

We do appear to have some visibility into how Paypal's cryptocoin scheme "actually works" on the inside (they "make money on the spread between buying and selling prices"); I assume there is similar visibility into how Venmo is operating their scheme. https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2020/10/21/paypal-brings-crypto-gambling-to-us-retail-bad-for-customers-bad-for-paypal/

Sorry to keep updating this thread but I need to correct something— above I suggest Stripe is supporting cryptocoin payments. It's not Stripe that's doing cryptocoins, it's Square. I get those two confused, sorry. (Stripe did have a Bitcoin service until 2018 but then stopped.)