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Hi guys. I debated since yesterday whether or not to do this. Ultimately I am going to, because I think it's important to address the kind of tactic that was used here and why it's harmful. So I'm going to post a total of 2 threads tonight. The first one will be here.
And the first one will be a personal one, that unfortunately deals with topics many of you may not want to read or see, so please if you need to heed this warning that I'm about to give, stop reading this thread right now, just wait for my second one: tw suicide baiting, abuse
I said I seriously debated about whether or not to do this thread and I meant it. I've come to the decision that because this person (we're calling him MoT for "Man on Twitter" FYI) didn't simply target this behavior at me but made it public and asked for it to be spread...
...that ethically speaking I should address it publicly so people can choose, when they perhaps come across this kind of behavior in the wild, to protect themselves and their mental health and reject the suggestions that the tactic tries to embed in you.
So MoT eventually, after my convo with him and then thread I made with receipts of his own words, decided to post a response and requested it be spread, intending it to get to my eyes. Here it is. I'll post the full pics of what he posted too.
The words are here now for you to read for yourself, so anything I say about what he's said here you can freely check with what he actually posted. Which is the same thing I did yesterday in my thread on his Cockle's opinion, which I didn't even tag to him.
What happened yesterday in a summary, before I respond to all this: I follow someone who commented on his thread he made, so I read his thread. I talked with him on it for a bit, disagreeing with him, and we didn't come to an agreement. I told him I was making my own thread.
I told him I wouldn't be tagging him and I'd be showing pictures of his own words in my thread when I argued against his opinion--I did that so people (him especially) would stop claiming I was lying about his words or mischaracterizing his statements. I made the thread.
He came to the thread, responded multiple times to it insulting me and mocking the thread, then at some point blocking me and lying about the entire exchange to people afterward. Then he posted the post I shared here. So I'm going to try to be succinct but also thorough.
I'm going address some of the aspects of this post right now thematically basically, where I'll give a basic short summary of it then respond to it. Judge for yourself whether how I characterize each point is accurate to his post and what he said. Here we go.
First and foremost, MoT: Learn what “bad faith” means – “bad faith” does not mean “someone is disagreeing with me and wont stop refuting my claims with my own words,” it means, “someone is engaging in an argument with no intention of adhering to reason or logic"
It not only means that but it implies as well: "I will do anything even blatantly inappropriate things in order to either bait you into an argument and rile you up, or to win the argument you’re currently having with them.”
I teach argumentation, please stop using rhetoric and logic terms you don’t understand and are only using because it sounds good when you say it, like your opponents are Big Bad Wolves.
Next issue to address: “You’re not normal, you’re obsessed with this” more than once in post, first of all, we are talking about a subject that both of us are very passionate about, you made a 30 minute video about how Cockles is real, throwing stones in glass houses vibes mate.
Secondly, my actions, words, and behavior yesterday were not abnormal. I had multiple exchanges with you over a couple hours, where I asked you plainly to not misrepresent my words to me again or I would make the convo into a thread where I bring receipts, then I did.
I did that because you did exactly what I asked you not to do. So as to NOT tag you or “harass” you or “dog-pile” you, I made my own thread. The words that I showed in it were your own words, which you literally routinely say you’re proud of and still believe in.
I don’t know what “obsessed” and “Normal” means to you, but I think everyone else reading this can make out for themselves whether they categorize this as “normal” or “abnormal.”
Moving on: “Twisted my words into things I never said” “purposefully misleading about what I said” “attempted to harm me” “invalidated, mischaracterized, devalued ME/my statements” - WOW disagreeing with someone and using logic and evidence to do so isn’t a harmful practice.
Having critical discussions where people disagree, engage back and forth with reasoning and proofs and explanations, is not a harmful practice, and it’s really fucked up of you to try to insinuate otherwise. In addition, I literally posted YOUR OWN WORDS. No twisting involved.
Also STOP doing this kind of thing yall—I absolutely NEVER devalued YOU as a person nor attacked YOU as a person. I criticized your WORDS & OPINIONS. Your entire identity should not be tied to whether or not you have right opinions all the time, which is what this statement says.
It says “you’ve devalued me when you’ve devalued my words and statements.” No. This is bad bad bad mojo and you should figure out a way to accept that human beings are often wrong, you’re going to be wrong sometimes if not often because you’re a human, that's how it works.
when that happens the people who have pointed out that you’re wrong are not attacking you as a person, and it’s not and SHOULD not be the end of the world or a fatal blow to your soul, but rather just how humans should learn and adapt to knowledge as they move through life.
Next: “I’ve had you blocked for a while” How does it feel to be a liar? You & I had several convos the last few months freely on our TLs about not SP/N, like queer history & ancient/medieval literature, queerness in the Bible. Suddenly you can’t read or something, you don’t know?
No, you blocked me just this last night. Stop trying to milk sympathy by embellishing your accusations against me. It's unnecessary and frankly it's so so so old hat now to be able to see past blocks, are blocks even a thing anymore? Philosophy, by Sam.
New point: “be an adult” - adults have disagreements and criticize others' words & opinions, & don't then immediately scream that the other person is a “harassing dogpiler shitty person trying to harm me & attack me” & call for everyone they know to spread that info far & wide.
Disagreement, debate, and critical discourse—yes even UNPLEASANT discourse—is natural human adult behavior that frankly too many people, like you for instance, weaponize as ways to insult others or take too personally.
You mention in this post there were others who disagreed with you too but “didn’t harass you," so what exactly did I do that they didn’t? They didn’t dare to speak out to you about their disagreement? They didn’t back down when you started making things personal and mocking them?
They didn’t point out your own words back to you which directly contradict what you’re saying now? They didn't refuse to allow you to use abuse tactics on them when you became really upset that people disagreed with you so much?
I think everyone gets the point let's move on, and we're moving on to the worst one, and I'm really sorry guys. I'll put the trigger warning here yet again in case people missed it the first time, if this is a bad one for you stop reading now: tw suicide baiting, abuse
“People kill themselves for what you do and you do it all the time, another day I may have killed myself or broken down, you did this to me once before and I DID consider killing myself, it feels like you were TRYING to get me to kill myself i.e. ‘that was your goal’...
...((that last sentiment is multiple times mentioned, literally multiple and the next statement too)) one day you WILL kill someone I KNOW, so you have to be stopped, you’re LUCKY I didn’t do it this time” ---- BUT I’M NOT THE VICTIM
Ok, so…….here’s what we’re going to do. I’m not going to make this about me. You don’t deserve to know anything about me, and you don’t deserve my energy or explanation on how shitty this was of you to do, not just in general but especially to me.
Instead, we’re just going to talk about why what you’ve done with this is really abusive, harmful, & indicative that you have a whole lot of self-esteem issues which I truly, I’m actually being serious here, truly hope you are able to overcome some day.
I absolutely never, ever, ever, told you to kill yourself, suggested it, or attempted to get you to do so. That did not happen. Period. I disagreed with you, and addressed your own words, verbatim from receipts, when I was doing so, and was being snarky during the process.
That is NOT something that equates encouraging people to kill themselves or wishing that they would. For you to attempt to put that kind of “consequence” on me when I not only did nothing of the sort, but you actually don’t know anything about me or my own mental health history?
That is fucking disgusting, entirely inappropriate, & remarkably manipulative. Yes, manipulative. This is suicide-baiting, when you emotionally/mentally abuse someone by threatening or insinuating you’ll kill yourself if the person does/says something you don’t like/agree with.
"I'm not a victim I'm fine” however “you could have made me kill myself, I probably would have on a different day, I almost have killed myself in the past because of you" Not only is this textbook suicide-baiting, this is a “have my cake and eat it too” tactic used by abusers.
They both resoundingly paint themselves as a victim that almost killed themselves they were so hurt & attacked, & try to inspire admiration in onlookers who don’t know the full story of what’s going on into praise for them being a brave fighter through all they were put through.
I say this with all sincerity—you need to get help for your mental health issues. Suicide-baiting someone because they disagreed with you on the internet & used your own words when you tried to claim they were lying about your opinions, is not only inappropriate as a response,
It is completely abusive to do to someone, for any reason. I really, really need you to hear me on this: what you have done here is not ok, and I really hope that you get the help you need and learn about how bad this was so that you discontinue the practice.
I am not your friend, I am a virtual stranger on the internet, and we had a disagreement where I showed your own words and opinions in the process so that you couldn’t deny them or lie to me about them. I should not have such control or influence over your mental health.
Especially not for disagreeing with you and bringing receipts while doing it. Our conversation lasted maybe several hours on one thread before I took myself away from you in a literal attempt to do the OPPOSITE of what you’ve accused me of.
Please detach your own personal identity from whether or not your opinions on things are right, because opinions are influenced by experience, facts, emotions & imagination, and it is human nature to have opinions that are proven wrong, or to make mistakes when not trying to.
You mention that you’ve worked on your mental health and so you’re in, apparently, a better place than you have been in the past, and I’m happy for you for that—seriously—but you then posting this post and calling for your followers to spread it far and wide?
And specifically intending to have it find its way to me so I could see & read all your words, is not healthy behavior, & what you did in the post is abusive, point blank. I am not responsible for your decisions. I am not responsible for your life. I disagreed with your opinion.
So I’m going to say the harshest thing I’ve said to you in this whole fiasco, & then I’m going to block you, & I really want you to please never, EVER, contact me or talk about me again. Please forget that I exist, in this moment right now, and I’m going to do the same for you:
Fuck you. Goodbye.
