One hill I'll die on is that a Good PM and a Good Designer have 80% intechangeable skills.

A high functioning optmization team in a org with a solid design system might not need a designer.

A high functioning exploratory team with not a lot of stakeholder mgmt doesnt need a PM

One of those strong opinions loosely held type of things

To reassure: On the first option I'm not impling design is just visuals.. I'm saying that a dedicated designer in that context might not be necessary for it to be properly designed, that's what I mean with the interchangeable skillset

I often use this diagram from @nlevin , or a remixed version of it, to have this conversation with my teams

The key word here being TYPICALLY

https://www.figma.com/community/file/805270101178055648/Design-%C3%97-PM

I see myself coming back to this thread by @hpdailyrant very often and I would expect a solid designer to be able to articulate and answer to all of these https://twitter.com/hpdailyrant/status/1215519177194106880

I should be having a a coffee or a walk in my break but here I am... tweeting

Case in point. https://twitter.com/LMindler/status/1383186539203633154