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I've been very politely asked by a Leave voter "if you or most Remain voters were in favour of becoming part of an EU nation state. If no, I cannot see how the EU could continue with associated satellite states with limited voting powers. Ideas?"
My attempted reply follows:
My attempted reply follows:
1/22. Firstly, I think "Nation State" is quite an exaggeration, or ambiguous enough that a yes/no answer won't cover it. So I disagree with the main premise of the question.
2. "EU as a Nation State", subsuming the UK, would imply the characteristics of a single country. One military force that can travel throughout the EU, one taxation system, one set of travel rules, one social welfare model, one currency, no local constitutions or legal systems.
3. Even though UK was a full member - with a bigger input than most in terms of how the Single Market / Customs Union was applied - it had several permanent opt outs: didn't join the Euro, didn't join Schengen etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opt-outs_in_the_European_Union
4. Integration on a scale of 1 to 10.
EU maybe at 7, moving to 8, but UK opt outs had us already capped at 5. Leavers pretended we were at 10 (Brussels decides all our rules), promised to move to 4 (look how well Norway does), but the intention was always 1 (complete isolation).
EU maybe at 7, moving to 8, but UK opt outs had us already capped at 5. Leavers pretended we were at 10 (Brussels decides all our rules), promised to move to 4 (look how well Norway does), but the intention was always 1 (complete isolation).
5. This was how they sold Brexit. Misrepresenting the current situation, misrepresenting the future.
Comparisons with Norway, Switzerland as a sales pitch, without intending to go down that path. Once the referendum was won, the scenarios that sold it were ruled out by red lines
Comparisons with Norway, Switzerland as a sales pitch, without intending to go down that path. Once the referendum was won, the scenarios that sold it were ruled out by red lines
6. Instead we got this reality. UK has moved to the most extreme other end - complete isolation from any cooperative alliances. This was never proposed so has no UK democratic mandate.
7. And this has real-world consequences: trade friction even within the UK, exports collapsing, fishing collapsed, "expats" suffering, shortages of seasonal labour, financial jobs leaving,
8. This thread chronicles (388 so far) stories large-and-small showing how people are suffering because of the type of Brexit delivered.
I would challenge you to find a remotely similar list of good-news stories that are genuinely linked to Brexit. https://twitter.com/rdanielkelemen/status/1348964732104007680?s=19
I would challenge you to find a remotely similar list of good-news stories that are genuinely linked to Brexit. https://twitter.com/rdanielkelemen/status/1348964732104007680?s=19
9. Almost none of this is because of Brexit - it is because we also left other agreements we promised not to leave. Brexit-plus is the issue. EFTA would instantly address MOST of these.
10. In case there is any doubt that these were lies, lets look at the border in the Irish Sea.
Here is Boris BEFORE the WA, promising he wouldn't do it. https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1379740662623506432?s=19
Here is Boris BEFORE the WA, promising he wouldn't do it. https://twitter.com/march_change/status/1379740662623506432?s=19
