Read on Twitter
and HAVE IT YOU SHALL, good grief what a rabbit hole
but first, I have found a suitable donor stable & must commence shoveling https://twitter.com/jonrog1/status/1380561073422487553
but first, I have found a suitable donor stable & must commence shoveling https://twitter.com/jonrog1/status/1380561073422487553
nope gotta wait an hour for pickup, thread incoming
manure is a battlefield you guys
Ok so when folks talk about using manure in ag/gardening, what they really mean is
1) manure from dairy cows
2) that has been composted.
For a variety of reasons, that's the manure most amenable to being composted, sold, & used as fertilizer.
Ok so when folks talk about using manure in ag/gardening, what they really mean is
1) manure from dairy cows
2) that has been composted.
For a variety of reasons, that's the manure most amenable to being composted, sold, & used as fertilizer.
This works great if you're in an area that has dairy farming: the northeast, midwest, & west coast.
However. If you live in a region that doesn't, such as THE ENTIRE SOUTH, shit gets complicated fast.
However. If you live in a region that doesn't, such as THE ENTIRE SOUTH, shit gets complicated fast.
sidenote: the South grows a lot less dairy than it needs and the usual reason given is "bc Holsteins don't do well in the heat."
That is both true, and not nearly the whole story.
That is both true, and not nearly the whole story.
A classic problem in the dairy industry is that the highest/cheapest milk availability is in the summer, but that's when demand craters bc most school milk programs aren't active then.
The South doesn't have this problem: the highest/cheapest milk availability for much of the region is fall/spring/winter. It synchs up exactly with the school milk demand peak.
The school year is when our pastures are real thick & temperatures are at comfortable cow temps- Holsteins are most comfortable at 30-60F aka Southern winter.
Also, smaller dairy breeds like Jerseys handle heat a lot better than massive Holsteins. So no, it ain't the weather.
Also, smaller dairy breeds like Jerseys handle heat a lot better than massive Holsteins. So no, it ain't the weather.
tl;dr the Great Southern Dairy Hole is way more about how southern landowners have grown cotton at the expensive of literally everything else because it gave them maximum social control during Jim Crow -> no regional dairy tradition.
It's not about dairy cow physiology.
It's not about dairy cow physiology.
What that means for modern markets is
1) Dairy prices in the South are significantly higher than in the rest of the US, due to undersupply that continues to this day.
2) Good luck buying manure from all our nonexistent dairies.
1) Dairy prices in the South are significantly higher than in the rest of the US, due to undersupply that continues to this day.
2) Good luck buying manure from all our nonexistent dairies.
Now, the South & especially NC still has a lot of livestock. It's just not dairy.
We've got lots & lots of hog & chickens! Now let's talk about why those aren't great fits for retail manure sales.
We've got lots & lots of hog & chickens! Now let's talk about why those aren't great fits for retail manure sales.
Hog manure: This is usually handled in a way that's parallel to the flush toilet. Hose the barn down & hold it all in a manure lagoon [where it can fester until the next hurricane spreads it all over the county].
You can't drive up & fill your pickup with it bc it's liquid.
You can't drive up & fill your pickup with it bc it's liquid.
Chicken manure: usually called "chicken litter" bc it's also any wood shavings or straw the birds were walking on.
There are 2 problems with chicken litter.
There are 2 problems with chicken litter.
1) It's really high in nutrients & salts- it'll burn the plants. Unless it's really well-composted. Which, good luck finding a poultry farm that's focused enough on manure sales to be bothered. Usually they're busy growing chickens, not micromanaging decomposition.
You know how people complain about artificial fertilizers being too potent so they burn plants, disrupt the soil ecology, etc etc? Guess what, poultry shit does that too! It ain't about whether it's natural or synthetic, it's just high nutrient & salt content.
2) Poultry tend to be raised with medications that contain arsenic! Isn't that fun?
Don't worry, there's no arsenic in the meat & eggs
because they shit it all out. (: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969718305138
Don't worry, there's no arsenic in the meat & eggs
because they shit it all out. (: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0048969718305138
You can get away with a few loads of poultry litter w/o arsenic problems, but
-it tends to run off into local streams
-yes it can build up to harmful levels & make your crops unusable, it's arsenic https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/6141-ark-rice-growers-sue-over-arsenic-in-poultry-litter
-why would you want to fuck around with that
-it tends to run off into local streams
-yes it can build up to harmful levels & make your crops unusable, it's arsenic https://www.meatpoultry.com/articles/6141-ark-rice-growers-sue-over-arsenic-in-poultry-litter
-why would you want to fuck around with that
So there's no dairy manure around here. Hog & poultry litter are right out. There are hobby rabbit & organic chicken farms that sell manure... 2 bags at a time.
But a bitch needs 3 pickup trucks full. What do?
The ultimate recourse: horse boarding stables.
But a bitch needs 3 pickup trucks full. What do?
The ultimate recourse: horse boarding stables.
Horse boarding stables are peppered somewhat uniformly through the US. They all have a giant pile of poo out back. And if you call around, 1/10 to 1/5 of them will have a front-loader they can use to scoop up 1 ton at a time & drop it into visiting pickup trucks.
Kaching
Kaching
HOWEVER
once you have found your boarding stable Prince Charming, you're still not done
once you have found your boarding stable Prince Charming, you're still not done
Most stables buy a lot of hay to feed their horses. So far, so good.
BUT, a lot of hay farms use pyridine carboxylic acid (PCA) herbicides
that go right through the horse
and don't break down until the manure gets mixed in with soil and waits 6 months. https://extension.oregonstate.edu/crop-production/soil/herbicide-carryover-hay-manure-compost-grass-clippings
BUT, a lot of hay farms use pyridine carboxylic acid (PCA) herbicides
that go right through the horse
and don't break down until the manure gets mixed in with soil and waits 6 months. https://extension.oregonstate.edu/crop-production/soil/herbicide-carryover-hay-manure-compost-grass-clippings
There is absolutely no way to know ahead of time if the manure has PCA residues in it or not. The horse farm has no idea, bc they can't track which poop came from which lot of hay even if they did know the hay's herbicide status when they bought it.
And since the poop sits on top of the ground in giant piles, IF it has PCAs in it they will still be in there when you buy it. Again, it doesn't start to break down until it's mixed in with soil. [Thnx soil microbes.]
So I'm just getting my poop & running a quick test on it before spreading it all over the yard ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
If it passes, great!
If it fails, you can still use it for plants that aren't affected by PCA herbicide like corn, taro, grasses, & mature berry plants.
If it passes, great!
If it fails, you can still use it for plants that aren't affected by PCA herbicide like corn, taro, grasses, & mature berry plants.
"But aren't the herbicide leftovers a human health haza-"
bitch my insides are coated with Teflon derivatives because some Dutch chemical executives found out it was cheaper to export their hazwaste to NC & spray it into our air than treat it, I got bigger problems
bitch my insides are coated with Teflon derivatives because some Dutch chemical executives found out it was cheaper to export their hazwaste to NC & spray it into our air than treat it, I got bigger problems
(yeah our county is such a hazmat shitshow that Mark Ruffalo made a documentary about it, so that's fun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Waters_%282019_film%29)
Anyway, the way you run a quick DIY herbicide test on your manure is called a bioassay.
This is fancy science talk for "plant some seeds in it & see if they come up fucked-up-looking."
This is fancy science talk for "plant some seeds in it & see if they come up fucked-up-looking."
I like to use cowpea/black-eyed pea seeds for this one. Legumes are sensitive to PCA, & cowpeas germinate fast so you get quick results.
Anyway, stay tuned over the next couple days as we pick up mystery poop & do a science to find out if it's any good 
shit's ahoy
Also for everyone asking "why not use beef cow manure?"
The first step in selling manure is scooping it up, right?
Here's the thing: ALL beef cattle live most of their lives on pasture. Feedlot stage only lasts a few months.
The first step in selling manure is scooping it up, right?
Here's the thing: ALL beef cattle live most of their lives on pasture. Feedlot stage only lasts a few months.
For one thing, you shouldn't keep beef cattle in one place long enough to build up a layer of manure worth scooping. Like, they'd be wading in shit & the plants would be long-dead. That's horrible pasture management.
Second, let's say you go through a pasture & scoop up manure. That takes a skid steer or front-loader: a big metal blade.
What does scraping a big metal blade over a field of grass do? FUCKIN WRECKS IT
What does scraping a big metal blade over a field of grass do? FUCKIN WRECKS IT
Like, the whole point of pastured beef is supposed to be that the manure goes back into the soil.
You can't do that AND harvest the manure for sale.
You can't do that AND harvest the manure for sale.
Which brings up another point that deserves to be emphasized to the general public:
The only way to traffic manure around is to keep livestock in hard-floored barns.
You cannot have a food system that has both 100% pastured livestock AND hauling manure to crop fields.
The only way to traffic manure around is to keep livestock in hard-floored barns.
You cannot have a food system that has both 100% pastured livestock AND hauling manure to crop fields.
They're mutually exclusive.
The whole "organic" concept of spreading manure on fields as the main fertilizer only works because uhhhh it assumes a lot of animals are being kept indoors.
I feel like we should talk about that more lol
The whole "organic" concept of spreading manure on fields as the main fertilizer only works because uhhhh it assumes a lot of animals are being kept indoors.
I feel like we should talk about that more lol
Time to talk waste management & imperialism!
There are a LOT of ways to handle the manure/sewage/soil nutrient cycle.
Barns & manure hauling have their time & place
but the way we use it as the default is thanks to British imperialism.
There are a LOT of ways to handle the manure/sewage/soil nutrient cycle.
Barns & manure hauling have their time & place
but the way we use it as the default is thanks to British imperialism.
That's especially true in sustainable agriculture! The main body of organic/sustainable practices come from the "British high farming" aka "after the Renaissance England caught on to what Dutch farmers had been doing since the Middle Ages & pretended they invented it themselves"
These farmways are based on
1) keeping animals confined in barns
2) relying on horrifically underpaid peasant/tenant labor to scoop up all the poop & spread it on fields.
British high farming helped drive Enclosure, aka a human rights disaster that drove colonialism.
1) keeping animals confined in barns
2) relying on horrifically underpaid peasant/tenant labor to scoop up all the poop & spread it on fields.
British high farming helped drive Enclosure, aka a human rights disaster that drove colonialism.
If you've ever seen an old-timey piece of literature rhapsodizing about the virtues of manure & how it feeds the soil
you need to understand that that was a genteel way for the aristocracy & emerging bourgeois to talk about the need to keep wages down.
you need to understand that that was a genteel way for the aristocracy & emerging bourgeois to talk about the need to keep wages down.
British high farming literally only penciled out if wages were kept catastrophically low so gentlemen could afford the labor to clean barns & haul the manure around.
This drove rural poverty, urbanization, & emigration from England.
This drove rural poverty, urbanization, & emigration from England.
Then later a bunch of 20th century British gentry decided to get all nostalgic about British high farming.
That's... the origin story for the US organic farming movement.
That's... the origin story for the US organic farming movement.
Technology has changed a lot since British high farming's birth and its 20th century renaissance.
So, we're not wedded to wage issues that come with British high farming *in the same way* that they were.
That's great news!
So, we're not wedded to wage issues that come with British high farming *in the same way* that they were.
That's great news!
But it would be even better news if we talked openly about how organic practices, aka British high farming, were literally designed to promote rural poverty
and *how we should be critical of & update those practices* as a result.
and *how we should be critical of & update those practices* as a result.
We should be especially aware of the fact that a lot of the writings on "land stewardship" that we're using as nostalgia fodder
are actually tracts written by the wealthy to present themselves as virtuous stewards of the earth
and that's why it's ok for them to fuck the poor.
are actually tracts written by the wealthy to present themselves as virtuous stewards of the earth
and that's why it's ok for them to fuck the poor.
We can't fix agriculture by just trying to replicate the past.
The past was fucked up.
THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE.
The past was fucked up.
THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE.
We also need to detach from the idea that "sustainable farming = organic practices = British high farming."
The fact that there's a lot of interest in Indigenous land management practices right now is a good thing.
The fact that there's a lot of interest in Indigenous land management practices right now is a good thing.
We can't be using England as the role model for everything. Especially when the climate, soils, & crops grown there are completely different from most of the US. Basing US farmways on English practices is so, so inappropriate.
Alas, the manure obsession is part of that lol
Alas, the manure obsession is part of that lol
Example: Amazonian communities converted kitchen waste, manure, & night soil into a nutrient-rich charcoal.
This is clean, odorless, preserves nutrients, kills pathogens, & makes it light enough that transporting it to fields is NBD.
This is clean, odorless, preserves nutrients, kills pathogens, & makes it light enough that transporting it to fields is NBD.
HOWEVER organic ag regulations forbid doing that.
Because "a farmer would never do that to manure!"
…uhhhh they did though, for thousands of years
what they mean is an ENGLISH farmer would never do that. aka, we have an official stance that only English farmways are valid lol
Because "a farmer would never do that to manure!"
…uhhhh they did though, for thousands of years
what they mean is an ENGLISH farmer would never do that. aka, we have an official stance that only English farmways are valid lol
Organic regulations do allow using charcoal as a soil amendment, as long as it's made of wood
which is the stupidest shit ever
Wood charcoal has no nutrients. And I'm sorry, is there some kind of tree glut we need to solve by cutting them down & charring them?? Makes no sense!
which is the stupidest shit ever
Wood charcoal has no nutrients. And I'm sorry, is there some kind of tree glut we need to solve by cutting them down & charring them?? Makes no sense!
you know what if poop imperialism into this I made a 2-part podcast thing about it
https://soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/23-backed-up-like-an-alabama-st-train https://soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/26-mike-mcgolden-part-2
https://soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/23-backed-up-like-an-alabama-st-train https://soundcloud.com/farm-to-taber-podcast/26-mike-mcgolden-part-2
Anyway, again: A farm approach that includes barns, scooping manure out of them, & hauling it around to spread on fields for fertilizer
has its time and place!
But it also cannot be the default or the norm & still have a sustainable food system.
has its time and place!
But it also cannot be the default or the norm & still have a sustainable food system.
So like, it really shouldn't be built into organic regulations, to the point of excluding other practices like biochar, is what I'm saying.
Really excited to twete this bc every time I point out the very glaring imperialism that's baked into organic agriculture as we know it
a bunch of SUPER angry people show up
they're worse than the Elon Musk fanboys & that's saying something
a bunch of SUPER angry people show up
they're worse than the Elon Musk fanboys & that's saying something
Anyway, this thread brought to you by having to scramble for a new manure hookup yesterday bc I only had the truck for 1 day and my normal shit dealer was out of town
Shout-out to North Star Stables in Parkton NC- they do overnight stays for anyone traveling with horses, so they are very very good about answering the phone. 10/10 easiest farm to arrange a manure pickup with.
They also give it away for free lol
https://www.facebook.com/NSEStables
They also give it away for free lol
https://www.facebook.com/NSEStables
