It’s common to see reference to #butch #lesbians when ppl want to argue that there are too many trans men, or that many trans men are actually butch lesbians. Is there some calculation that can work out an acceptable quota for trans men? How many is too many trans men?

It’s also common to see suggestions, often from those who aren’t butch lesbians, that trans men are trans men because society makes all women hate their bodily female sexed characteristics & because male violence against women starts in girlhood with public harassment & assault.

Interestingly, this is something that in the past was also said about butches. That butches want to hide their sexed as female bodily characteristics & not be seen as female. Many don’t seem to know that feminism has had a contradictory relationship with butch lesbians...

...& that lesbian feminism in particular demonised butch lesbians as aping heterosexual roles, performing sexism, engaging in sadomasochism by eroticising sexism against femme lesbians.

It was suggested that butches needed help from feminism to love their female bodies again, to reclaim their womanhood & to love equality. Then they would no longer be butches. Do people know this history?

Do people know why butch lesbians find it hard to take these proclamations of love from gender-critical feminism, when it seems to translate as – come back all is forgiven just as long as you’re not #trans ?

It’s offensive to those with experience of being visibly gender non-conforming to suggest that objectification & misogyny in society makes all girls want to hide their bodies & dress “like boys”. You say this to butches who have always been butches, who no doubt were bullied....

& alienated for not joining in w mainstream girlhood trajectories:buying bras, fancying boys, comparing heterosexual exploits etc. How many butches went to school w other butches, even knew others? How many were surrounded by teenage girls hiding their bodies & wearing menswear?

Every1 has individual relationship w their body. Some trans men dont recall hating their bodies. Some butches voice exp of discomfort/dysphoria (as term that’s used) w sexed bodily characteristics. Some butches ID as trans/transgender also. These aren't clear camps, but overlap.