Gun control thread.
Will go over all the justifications for gun ownership and the lack of empirical basis for said justifications.
This thread applies to capitalists and anti capitalists
1/a lot
Will go over all the justifications for gun ownership and the lack of empirical basis for said justifications.
This thread applies to capitalists and anti capitalists
1/a lot
Preface
- homicide
- suicide
- mass shootings
The justifications that I will go over are
- home/self defense
- defense of others
- Feelings of safety
- overthrowing the government/revolution
- deterring tyranny and oppression
- hunting/rural life
- collecting/recreation/sport
- homicide
- suicide
- mass shootings
The justifications that I will go over are
- home/self defense
- defense of others
- Feelings of safety
- overthrowing the government/revolution
- deterring tyranny and oppression
- hunting/rural life
- collecting/recreation/sport
PREFACE
V
V
Scope of yearly deaths
1a. of American deaths per year, firearm suicides represent 1 in 120 (22938/2744248=0.836%), firearm homicides 1 in 190 (22938/2744248=0.525%), and other firearm injuries 1 in 2100 ((38658-(22938+14415))/2744248=0.0476%): https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr67/nvsr67_05.pdf">https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data...
1a. of American deaths per year, firearm suicides represent 1 in 120 (22938/2744248=0.836%), firearm homicides 1 in 190 (22938/2744248=0.525%), and other firearm injuries 1 in 2100 ((38658-(22938+14415))/2744248=0.0476%): https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr67/nvsr67_05.pdf">https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data...
1b. firearms are the third leading cause of death among kids below 17 years old: 693 die from firearm homicide, 493 suicide, and 82 accidents: https://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids-third-leading-cause-death-627209">https://www.newsweek.com/guns-kids... https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/06/15/peds.2016-3486">https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/e... https://sci-hub.st/10.1542/peds.2016-3486">https://sci-hub.st/10.1542/p...
Economic cost of firearm proliferation
Extreme cost incurred
2a. firearm injury costs are $174.1 billion per year: https://www.childrenssafetynetwork.org/sites/childrenssafetynetwork.org/files/TheCostofGunViolence.pdf
2b.">https://www.childrenssafetynetwork.org/sites/chi... firearm injury hospitalization costs to victims alone are $17.7 billion per year: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606014000609">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.surg.2014.02.011">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
Extreme cost incurred
2a. firearm injury costs are $174.1 billion per year: https://www.childrenssafetynetwork.org/sites/childrenssafetynetwork.org/files/TheCostofGunViolence.pdf
2b.">https://www.childrenssafetynetwork.org/sites/chi... firearm injury hospitalization costs to victims alone are $17.7 billion per year: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0039606014000609">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.surg.2014.02.011">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
Homicide
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased homicide
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased homicide
3a. firearm prevalence 1981-2010 significantly positively correlates with firearm homicide and overall homicide
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2014.302042">https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/1... https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/AJPH.2014.302042
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/A...
http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2014.302042">https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/1... https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/AJPH.2014.302042
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/A...
3b. firearm prevalence 2001-2002 and 2004 significantly positively correlates with overall homicide
https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(15)00072-0/pdf">https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.amepre.2015.02.008
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S0749-3797(15)00072-0/pdf">https://www.ajpmonline.org/article/S... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.amepre.2015.02.008
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
3c. firearm prevalence 1981-2013 significantly positively correlates with firearm homicide and insignificantly with non-firearm homicide (implying overall increase in homicide)
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2015.0047">https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/... https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/vio.2015.0047
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/v...
https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/vio.2015.0047">https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/... https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/vio.2015.0047
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1089/v...
3d. firearm prevalence correlates with overall violent crime: http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_ownership.pdf">https://www.cjcj.org/uploads/c... https://web.archive.org/web/20171013095732/http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/documents/jpj_firearm_ownership.pdf">https://web.archive.org/web/20171... The current analysis used suicide by firearm as a proxy for gun ownership. Examining violent crime, homicide, rape, robbery, and assault for 1,997 counties
controls
v
controls
v
Suicide
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased suicide
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased suicide
4a. meta-study demonstrates that firearm prevalence correlates with risk of suicide [3.24x] and homicide [2x]: http://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(15)01030-X/abstract">https://www.amjmed.com/article/S... Data were pooled from 16 observational studies that assessed the odds of suicide or homicide
4b. 1% increase of firearm prevalence correlates with a 1.4% increase of overall suicide
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005373-200704000-00031">https://insights.ovid.com/crossref... https://sci-hub.st/10.1097/01.ta.0000198214.24056.40
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1097/0...
https://insights.ovid.com/crossref?an=00005373-200704000-00031">https://insights.ovid.com/crossref... https://sci-hub.st/10.1097/01.ta.0000198214.24056.40
controls
v">https://sci-hub.st/10.1097/0...
4c. males with a firearm in the household have a suicide rate 10x that of those that don& #39;t: https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/160/10/929/140858">https://academic.oup.com/aje/artic... https://sci-hub.st/10.1093/aje/kwh309">https://sci-hub.st/10.1093/a...
controls
v
controls
v
4d. Connecticut& #39;s permit to purchase (PTP) law for handguns significantly decreased overall suicide: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743515002297">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.ypmed.2015.07.013">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j... Connecticut& #39;s firearm suicide rates were 15.4% lower than that of its synthetic control during the 10-year post-law period. [....]
4e. suicides by firearm are much more effective: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/means-matter/case-fatality/">https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-mat...
https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/ajph.90.12.1885">https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/a...
4f. firearms are more fatal than other methods; if the US had comparable firearm prevalence as other countries, it would have 20-38% fewer suicides
http://archive.is/mAcn3 ">https://archive.is/mAcn3&quo...
https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/ajph.90.12.1885">https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/a...
4f. firearms are more fatal than other methods; if the US had comparable firearm prevalence as other countries, it would have 20-38% fewer suicides
http://archive.is/mAcn3 ">https://archive.is/mAcn3&quo...
Mass shootings
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased mass shooting frequency
The overwhelming amount of evidence points towards a correlative and a causal relationship between firearms proliferation and increased mass shooting frequency
5a. higher gun ownership & looser gun laws correlate with higher mass shootings: https://www.bmj.com/content/364/bmj.l542">https://www.bmj.com/content/3... Mass shootings were defined as independent events in which four or more people were killed by a firearm.
1998-2015
1998-2015
mass shooting addendum
type of firearm and cartridge sizes available matter
5b. higher fatalities and higher woundings occur in active shooter incidents with a semiautomatic rifle than those without: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2702134">https://jamanetwork.com/journals/... https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/jama.2018.11009">https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/j...
type of firearm and cartridge sizes available matter
5b. higher fatalities and higher woundings occur in active shooter incidents with a semiautomatic rifle than those without: https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2702134">https://jamanetwork.com/journals/... https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/jama.2018.11009">https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/j...
5c. higher-caliber bullets are substantially more likely to result in a death than lower-caliber bullets: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/27/upshot/deadly-bullets-guns.html">https://www.nytimes.com/interacti... http://archive.is/9WhDj ">https://archive.is/9WhDj&quo... https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2688536">https://jamanetwork.com/journals/... https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/jamanetworkopen.2018.0833">https://sci-hub.st/10.1001/j...
JUSTIFICATION DEBUNKS
V
V
Self defense
Current available data on defensive firearm use suggests that instances of use are rare and usage in said instances does not make you statistically safer overall
Current available data on defensive firearm use suggests that instances of use are rare and usage in said instances does not make you statistically safer overall
Scope
1a. Defensive use of firearms is way rare than most people believe
why to prefer the NCVS to the Kleck data: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/m... http://archive.is/h6MEI
Kleck& #39;s">https://archive.is/h6MEI&quo... data is self-reported, which introduces bias
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/1861/understanding-and-preventing-violence-volume-1">https://www.nap.edu/catalog/1...
1a. Defensive use of firearms is way rare than most people believe
why to prefer the NCVS to the Kleck data: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/more-guns-do-not-stop-more-crimes-evidence-shows/">https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/m... http://archive.is/h6MEI
Kleck& #39;s">https://archive.is/h6MEI&quo... data is self-reported, which introduces bias
https://www.nap.edu/catalog/1861/understanding-and-preventing-violence-volume-1">https://www.nap.edu/catalog/1...
1b. Between 2003 and 2007, approximately 2.1 million household
burglaries were reported to the FBI each year on average.
Household burglaries ending in homicide made up 0.004% of all
burglaries during that period.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt
https://www.bjs.gov/content/p... href=" http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/library/2015/11/17/Dimaya_Victimization.pdf">https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore...
burglaries were reported to the FBI each year on average.
Household burglaries ending in homicide made up 0.004% of all
burglaries during that period.
https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/ascii/vdhb.txt
https://www.bjs.gov/content/p... href=" http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/library/2015/11/17/Dimaya_Victimization.pdf">https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore...
27.6% of the time, a person is home while the burglary occurs; 26% of those people home are harmed. That means 7.2% of burglaries result in someone being injured.
https://tinyurl.com/y48xkg62
0.004%">https://tinyurl.com/y48xkg62&... chance of death
0.65% chance of getting seriously injured
0.22% chance of being raped
https://tinyurl.com/y48xkg62
0.004%">https://tinyurl.com/y48xkg62&... chance of death
0.65% chance of getting seriously injured
0.22% chance of being raped
1a. defensive firearm use occurred in just 0.9% of crimes that had a victim; After any protective action, 4.2% of victims were injured; after SDGU, 4.1% of victims were injured. significantly reduced property loss
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743515001188">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.ypmed.2015.03.029">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743515001188">https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a... https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j.ypmed.2015.03.029">https://sci-hub.st/10.1016/j...
1b. high gun ownership in neighborhoods do not deter home break ins
https://www.nber.org/papers/w8926
no">https://www.nber.org/papers/w8... support for a net deterrent effect from widespread gun ownership. Analysis concludes that residential burglary rates tend to increase with community gun prevalence.
https://www.nber.org/papers/w8926
no">https://www.nber.org/papers/w8... support for a net deterrent effect from widespread gun ownership. Analysis concludes that residential burglary rates tend to increase with community gun prevalence.
1c. More effective forms of break in deterrents come in the form of alarms, outdoor cameras, dogs and other security measures #39;s_Perspective">https://www.researchgate.net/publication/268444817_Understanding_Decisions_to_Burglarize_from_the_Offender& #39;s_Perspective">https://www.researchgate.net/publicati...
1d. In a defensive scenario at home. The best method to increase safety is to retreat and call the appropriate authorities.
https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-inherent-danger-of-stand-your-ground-laws/
Standing">https://everytownresearch.org/report/th... your ground increases likelihood of entanglement and having it be the societal norm increases homicides
https://everytownresearch.org/report/the-inherent-danger-of-stand-your-ground-laws/
Standing">https://everytownresearch.org/report/th... your ground increases likelihood of entanglement and having it be the societal norm increases homicides
addendum to above point
police response times are extremely quick in the vast majority of places with 50 percent of departments responding within 10 minutes.
More likely to be killed in a confrontation with burglar than to a cop you call to your house https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/casr.30477#:~:text=%E2%9E%A2%20Los%20Angeles%20topped%20the,any%20other%20city%20we%20researched.%E2%80%9D">https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/1...
police response times are extremely quick in the vast majority of places with 50 percent of departments responding within 10 minutes.
More likely to be killed in a confrontation with burglar than to a cop you call to your house https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/casr.30477#:~:text=%E2%9E%A2%20Los%20Angeles%20topped%20the,any%20other%20city%20we%20researched.%E2%80%9D">https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/1...
Defense of others (good guy with a gun)
1a. 3.1% (5 cases) of active shooter scenarios were ended by an armed non law enforcement individual from 2000 to 2013
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf
Does">https://www.fbi.gov/file-repo... not make up for increased homicides and violence that come with carry laws
1a. 3.1% (5 cases) of active shooter scenarios were ended by an armed non law enforcement individual from 2000 to 2013
https://www.fbi.gov/file-repository/active-shooter-study-2000-2013-1.pdf
Does">https://www.fbi.gov/file-repo... not make up for increased homicides and violence that come with carry laws
1b. right to carry laws are associated with 13-15% higher overall violent crime rates 10 years after adoption: http://www.nber.org/papers/w23510.pdf">https://www.nber.org/papers/w2...
1c. unrestricted concealed carry and shall-issue concealed carry laws were associated with 4.4%-6.5% higher overall homicides per capita: https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/10.2105/AJPH.2017.304057">https://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/full/... https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/AJPH.2017.304057">https://sci-hub.st/10.2105/A...
Feeling safer (more qualitative)
liberal vs conservative demographic changes intersecting with feelings of comfort regarding firearms
liberal vs conservative demographic changes intersecting with feelings of comfort regarding firearms
1a. conservatives feel greater personal control when imagining holding a firearm; liberals do not; conservatives feel that an armed civilian entering a public shooting makes the situation less chaotic, while liberals feel it makes it more chaotic:
https://sci-hub.st/10.1086/695761 ">https://sci-hub.st/10.1086/6...
https://sci-hub.st/10.1086/695761 ">https://sci-hub.st/10.1086/6...
1b. country is becoming increasingly liberal and increasingly anti gun, meaning more people are becoming uncomfortable around guns
Deterring tyranny and oppression/revolution
Current data indicates that levels of gun ownerships do not correlated with levels of freedom or a states willingness to oppress its citizenry
Current data indicates that levels of gun ownerships do not correlated with levels of freedom or a states willingness to oppress its citizenry
1a. gun ownership vs freedom house scores
https://thinkprogress.org/civilian-guns-do-not-prevent-tyranny-f831c6aa871c/">https://thinkprogress.org/civilian-...
https://thinkprogress.org/civilian-guns-do-not-prevent-tyranny-f831c6aa871c/">https://thinkprogress.org/civilian-...
2a. revolutions are actually more likely in states with lower firearm ownership (probably spurious, but may be relevant) -- poorer places have fewer guns and more revolutions.
3a. Civil resistance is more effective than violent resistance at regime change, policy change and other changes.
(Chenowith and Stefan 2011)
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/02/why-nonviolent-resistance-beats-violent-force-in-effecting-social-political-change/
movement">https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/s... success is positively predicted by nonviolence and number of participants
(Chenowith and Stefan 2011)
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/02/why-nonviolent-resistance-beats-violent-force-in-effecting-social-political-change/
movement">https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/s... success is positively predicted by nonviolence and number of participants
Hunting/Rural life
Arguments can be made for niche firearm use in self defense against animals such as wild boar herds and bears that I believe can be justified as violent crime in rural as the risk with gun ownership would be more niche and rare in rural communities.
Arguments can be made for niche firearm use in self defense against animals such as wild boar herds and bears that I believe can be justified as violent crime in rural as the risk with gun ownership would be more niche and rare in rural communities.
It should still be more limited than what it is as there is limited data on the extent and scope on defensive firearm usage against animals and other methods of deterrence from animals have been proven more effective such as with bear mace
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c13e2e48f51309499864d1d/t/5cae42fbeef1a10d92b12d77/1554924284110/Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence.pdf">https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c...
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c13e2e48f51309499864d1d/t/5cae42fbeef1a10d92b12d77/1554924284110/Efficacy_of_Firearms_for_Bear_Deterrence.pdf">https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c...
I am morally vegan and none of this would matter anyway as I prescribe urbanization and catch, spay and release methods of population control over hunting.
Killing animals is something that is avoidable
Killing animals is something that is avoidable
Collecting and recreation
I have no moral objection to collecting and recreation so long as it is heavily regulated by the state and ammo couldn& #39;t be kept in the home like in Switzerland.
I would like state ran and operated gun ranges where you can store your guns.
I have no moral objection to collecting and recreation so long as it is heavily regulated by the state and ammo couldn& #39;t be kept in the home like in Switzerland.
I would like state ran and operated gun ranges where you can store your guns.
@benjaminpolitix fight me fool