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I am watching one of the sex cult documentaries because curiosity killed the cat, I guess.
And... I love how many of these self-actualisation and personal ethics "programs" are grossly ableist.
In the first 10 minutes, we already got "you're sick because you want attention"
And... I love how many of these self-actualisation and personal ethics "programs" are grossly ableist.
In the first 10 minutes, we already got "you're sick because you want attention"
The HBO one is absolutely coming across as an advertisement.
"I was skeptical but then I got hooked and it's great"
And so much of the footage looks like bible camps for teens and young adults.
The earnestness.
The guilelessness of the participants.
The corporate messaging.
"I was skeptical but then I got hooked and it's great"
And so much of the footage looks like bible camps for teens and young adults.
The earnestness.
The guilelessness of the participants.
The corporate messaging.
Also!
Why is there so much footage?
Why are there recordings of conversations and phone calls?
Do people normally record their conversations and training sessions?
It's weird.
Why is there so much footage?
Why are there recordings of conversations and phone calls?
Do people normally record their conversations and training sessions?
It's weird.
Ah, I see. It was deliberate.
To record for posterity.
And truth.
It's a cult of personality.
So much manipulation.
Sort-of multiple level marketing energy.
I can see the parallels to the training sessions for Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Six Sigma or churches.
To record for posterity.
And truth.
It's a cult of personality.
So much manipulation.
Sort-of multiple level marketing energy.
I can see the parallels to the training sessions for Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, Six Sigma or churches.
Why did victims feel those strong emotions and commit to the bananas requirements & training etc?
They play midnight volleyball for hours!
Adult camp!
They exhaust people until they have no resistance.
They give "special treatment" to individuals.
They coerce.
They manipulate.
They play midnight volleyball for hours!
Adult camp!
They exhaust people until they have no resistance.
They give "special treatment" to individuals.
They coerce.
They manipulate.
Dude created a sex cult where he's the top commander because he felt "women were being thwarted by men in positions of power when they tried to make a difference in the world."
Like... fem-bots???
"For a higher purpose"
So many power dynamics.
So much manipulation.
Like... fem-bots???
"For a higher purpose"
So many power dynamics.
So much manipulation.
Groupthink and conformity.
Personal identity melding with the ideals of a group.
It's like every corporate or school welcome week... to a new extreme.
It's like catechism classes.
But with added sleep deprivation and emotional manipulation and coercion through blackmail.
Personal identity melding with the ideals of a group.
It's like every corporate or school welcome week... to a new extreme.
It's like catechism classes.
But with added sleep deprivation and emotional manipulation and coercion through blackmail.
The trajectory of the women...
How they become skinnier & skinnier.
I've had friends with eating disorders ... but the women in this documentary are...
Like... I'd want to get them to doctors.
The leader's attitude: as long as you still have your period...
How they become skinnier & skinnier.
I've had friends with eating disorders ... but the women in this documentary are...
Like... I'd want to get them to doctors.
The leader's attitude: as long as you still have your period...
Frankly, I still think the weirdest part is that they filmed everything.
Officially weird.
Maybe they reenacted some of it? People pacing during phone calls?
Also, it does not surprise me at all that the writer/director of a metaphysical documentary is the main storyteller.
Officially weird.
Maybe they reenacted some of it? People pacing during phone calls?
Also, it does not surprise me at all that the writer/director of a metaphysical documentary is the main storyteller.
OMG
They were the progenitors of fake news.
Holy WTF
They were the progenitors of fake news.
Holy WTF
The more episodes I get into the miniseries the weirder it gets.
Apparently the sex cult started out as a casual sex cult before it dove into full coercion and branding.
But casual polyamory wasn't working.
Dude FULLY ADMITTED he was using sex to control board leadership
Apparently the sex cult started out as a casual sex cult before it dove into full coercion and branding.
But casual polyamory wasn't working.
Dude FULLY ADMITTED he was using sex to control board leadership
I do not recommend watching this as breakfast.
The dude has painfully creepy and chauvinistic ideas of men's and women's experiences in the world.
The dude has painfully creepy and chauvinistic ideas of men's and women's experiences in the world.
Holy toxic masculinity batman.
This is gross and misogynistic.
Blaming women for things.
It's gross.
They are disempowering women and subjugating women to men.
Through sex.
Suggesting women need to give up their "power" over men (which is sex).
It's all misogynistic tropes.
This is gross and misogynistic.
Blaming women for things.
It's gross.
They are disempowering women and subjugating women to men.
Through sex.
Suggesting women need to give up their "power" over men (which is sex).
It's all misogynistic tropes.
He's got his own version of M R A logic.
"Abuse is a made-up concept. And screaming abuse is a kind of abuse."
WHAT
"Women get away with not being humiliated" IN WHAT WORLD?!
Men think "women are a bunch of little kids"
And they don't take women seriously.
Is this the 1950s?
"Abuse is a made-up concept. And screaming abuse is a kind of abuse."
WHAT
"Women get away with not being humiliated" IN WHAT WORLD?!
Men think "women are a bunch of little kids"
And they don't take women seriously.
Is this the 1950s?
He just declared that women can't be as good as men because men won't let them.
Which is just a straight-up acknolwedgement of patriarchy (and white supremacy).
But he's absolving it as their system.
... as the right way
... as the way things should go.
Which is just a straight-up acknolwedgement of patriarchy (and white supremacy).
But he's absolving it as their system.
... as the right way
... as the way things should go.
"Nobody joins a cult. They join a good thing and then realise they're fucked."
Ugh they pushed it into Mexico and determined that the solution to improving society was through the individual.
At some earlier part of this documentary, Ayn Rand was cited and that was it for me
Ugh they pushed it into Mexico and determined that the solution to improving society was through the individual.
At some earlier part of this documentary, Ayn Rand was cited
and that was it for me
They keep calling the guy a scientist.
... and, why?
What has he done that's "scientific" except brainwash people?
Telling people they had work to do (ie money) to fix what they and their families have done
And the Mark guy even gave a TED Talk. I wonder if it's still up.
... and, why?
What has he done that's "scientific" except brainwash people?
Telling people they had work to do (ie money) to fix what they and their families have done
And the Mark guy even gave a TED Talk. I wonder if it's still up.
Dude built an entire cult of personality around himself.
And he fortified it with systems to justify his actions and disarm people's self-defense mechanisms.
He convinces people that their wariness of the creep in their midst is a personal flaw.
And he fortified it with systems to justify his actions and disarm people's self-defense mechanisms.
He convinces people that their wariness of the creep in their midst is a personal flaw.
The goal was to take confident people and completely undermine them.
To knock their pride out at the knees.
So they would subjugate themselves.
He demands absolute, lifetime loyalty from women.
And launches campaigns of abuse, harassment and lawsuits against those who want out.
To knock their pride out at the knees.
So they would subjugate themselves.
He demands absolute, lifetime loyalty from women.
And launches campaigns of abuse, harassment and lawsuits against those who want out.
He made the statement that "abuse is a made-up human construct".
I've got news for ya, buddy.
So is money.
So is gender.
So is friendship.
And refusing to acknowledge abuse does not make you immune to the law.
... despite laws also being made-up human constructs.
I've got news for ya, buddy.
So is money.
So is gender.
So is friendship.
And refusing to acknowledge abuse does not make you immune to the law.
... despite laws also being made-up human constructs.
The men, however, seem to be encouraged to entrench themselves in notions of patriarchy.
That THEY have been directly wounded by the loss of their mother's love and attention.
But women are only "indirectly" wounded because men put them in little boxes to preserve & protect them
That THEY have been directly wounded by the loss of their mother's love and attention.
But women are only "indirectly" wounded because men put them in little boxes to preserve & protect them
This guy sure was intent on building his own world of power and control.
And he succeeded.
After initially failing as a multi-level marketer.
That's why it all feels so similar to MLMs. He started in MLMs.
An MLM cult.
For sex.
But not just sex.
And he succeeded.
After initially failing as a multi-level marketer.
That's why it all feels so similar to MLMs. He started in MLMs.
An MLM cult.
For sex.
But not just sex.
One of the threads throughout the documentary is that people weren't paid.
A classic MLM tactic: Recruit people to pay for those you already owe.
Promise great financial rewards if you climb the ladder.
Make ladder climbing impossible.
String along.
String along how?
Coercion?
A classic MLM tactic: Recruit people to pay for those you already owe.
Promise great financial rewards if you climb the ladder.
Make ladder climbing impossible.
String along.
String along how?
Coercion?
The lawyers' argument that this is all consensual.
You don't brainwash and blackmail people for just sex.
Blackmail isn't consensual.
You don't build a global corporate training framework around just sex.
You don't build a master-slave mlm for sex.
You can get sex anywhere.
You don't brainwash and blackmail people for just sex.
Blackmail isn't consensual.
You don't build a global corporate training framework around just sex.
You don't build a master-slave mlm for sex.
You can get sex anywhere.
These weren't just some polyamorous people. You can break up with your polyam partners.
He wanted lifetime vows.
Servitude.
Submission.
Also no dudes but him.
He used the corporate training to recruit more victims.
It's easier to recruit w/ friendly, pretty women at the front.
He wanted lifetime vows.
Servitude.
Submission.
Also no dudes but him.
He used the corporate training to recruit more victims.
It's easier to recruit w/ friendly, pretty women at the front.
"Corporate training" for victim recruitment and money.
You don't always luck into a multi-million dollar alcohol empire heiress right off the bat.
Sometimes you need to make enough money to appear successful enough first, in order to lure in the heiresses.
You don't always luck into a multi-million dollar alcohol empire heiress right off the bat.
Sometimes you need to make enough money to appear successful enough first, in order to lure in the heiresses.
Mooching off a benefactor works. If you can lure in the a wealthy benefactor.
His whole "you are guilty of your parents' sins" schtick is gross.
But I imagine it roped in a bunch of rich kids.
"You're not stealing anything, but you haven't earned it."
So how do they earn it?
His whole "you are guilty of your parents' sins" schtick is gross.
But I imagine it roped in a bunch of rich kids.
"You're not stealing anything, but you haven't earned it."
So how do they earn it?
HUGE abuser energy.
"He made people feel really shit about themselves so they would feel they owed so much more than they were giving."
"You felt like shit and he was the only one that could fix it."
So much self-esteem manipulation.
So much power.
So much dominance.
"He made people feel really shit about themselves so they would feel they owed so much more than they were giving."
"You felt like shit and he was the only one that could fix it."
So much self-esteem manipulation.
So much power.
So much dominance.
He was even obsessed with sociopaths.
But let others argue that knowing what a sociopath is helps you avoid becoming one.
But
How many tools did he learn?
How many tactics did he pick up and use?
How many times did he show his hand and people believed it was an anecdote?
But let others argue that knowing what a sociopath is helps you avoid becoming one.
But
How many tools did he learn?
How many tactics did he pick up and use?
How many times did he show his hand and people believed it was an anecdote?
Anyway, as I said in a reply, and as noted a few times...
I think this is an oddly skewed story.
For a story about women being victimized, there's a whole lot being told through a man's perspective.
All the footage!
A whole lot of the womens' experiences aren't described well.
I think this is an oddly skewed story.
For a story about women being victimized, there's a whole lot being told through a man's perspective.
All the footage!
A whole lot of the womens' experiences aren't described well.
I also really cringe at the suspension of disbelief.
They had a secret club with a latin name and never bothered to look up the words?!?
Other clubs had ridiculously bland corporate or made-up names. "Society of Protectors", "Jness"
DOS meant something.
The internet was there!
They had a secret club with a latin name and never bothered to look up the words?!?
Other clubs had ridiculously bland corporate or made-up names. "Society of Protectors", "Jness"
DOS meant something.
The internet was there!
P.s.
A prison sentence was just handed out.
I recommend against victim-blaming. It's easy to jump to it because things look "so obvious" but it is easy to be suckered in when you've been negged and sleep-deprived for weeks by people you trust and love. https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/nxivm-pop-culture-productions-1.5784811
A prison sentence was just handed out.
I recommend against victim-blaming. It's easy to jump to it because things look "so obvious" but it is easy to be suckered in when you've been negged and sleep-deprived for weeks by people you trust and love. https://www.cbc.ca/news/entertainment/nxivm-pop-culture-productions-1.5784811
Also! This is an interesting article about the media branch of the group.
It's a good reminder to think critically and look into things before you commit to a new job (etc).
... and if people push back on your general questions about their org, don't join https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/356479
It's a good reminder to think critically and look into things before you commit to a new job (etc).
... and if people push back on your general questions about their org, don't join https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/356479
Ok!
I am now watching SEDUCED from Starz.
It's the much-less romanticized documentary about NXIVM.
Please mute this thread if you don't want to read about it.
I am only tweeting key points, not gossip.
This is the first tweet in the thread (for muting) https://twitter.com/alisonborealis/status/1327780422231621633?s=19
I am now watching SEDUCED from Starz.
It's the much-less romanticized documentary about NXIVM.
Please mute this thread if you don't want to read about it.
I am only tweeting key points, not gossip.
This is the first tweet in the thread (for muting) https://twitter.com/alisonborealis/status/1327780422231621633?s=19
Seduced is the story of the "lost cause" in The Vow, India Oxenberg.
It starts off with a whole lot more women's voices.
Lots of cult experts, too.
Walking through the processes and tactics used by cults to lure and retain people.
It starts off with a whole lot more women's voices.
Lots of cult experts, too.
Walking through the processes and tactics used by cults to lure and retain people.
Separating people from their friends/family.
Convincing people that their instincts (doubt etc) are wrong.
Developing rituals.
Giving leaders special titles and lauding their talents; setting them above.
Putting special attention on famous or high profile people, to recruit them.
Convincing people that their instincts (doubt etc) are wrong.
Developing rituals.
Giving leaders special titles and lauding their talents; setting them above.
Putting special attention on famous or high profile people, to recruit them.
A cult built on multilevel marketing, Ayn Rand, scientology, and business training courses.
... And unqualified psychologists.
Built on a platform of Neuro-Linguistics Programming (or hypnosis and subtle influence).
NXIVM didn't make money.
But it had rich benefactors.
... And unqualified psychologists.
Built on a platform of Neuro-Linguistics Programming (or hypnosis and subtle influence).
NXIVM didn't make money.
But it had rich benefactors.
The allure of these groups, from the outside, is two main things:
- adjacency to power and influence (hence the special focus on wealthy, influential, famous people)
- fixing or improving potentially everything in your life (testimonials cover work productivity, love life, mood)
- adjacency to power and influence (hence the special focus on wealthy, influential, famous people)
- fixing or improving potentially everything in your life (testimonials cover work productivity, love life, mood)
Ok. Rule number one, for all of our lives, cults or no:
Absolutely NOTHING is the solution to everything.
There is no panacea.
The silver bullet is a myth.
The world is FAR TOO COMPLEX to have one single solution.
(And yes, "one single solution" could be a whole "program")
Absolutely NOTHING is the solution to everything.
There is no panacea.
The silver bullet is a myth.
The world is FAR TOO COMPLEX to have one single solution.
(And yes, "one single solution" could be a whole "program")
You don't build a house with just a hammer.
You can't build a whole life with membership in a single group.
(And when the group has sub-groups so you have training and social and athletic things all with the same group, that's still just one group, and THAT is inadequate)
You can't build a whole life with membership in a single group.
(And when the group has sub-groups so you have training and social and athletic things all with the same group, that's still just one group, and THAT is inadequate)
The Nxivm promo materials make it sound like Bible camp, with Jesus.
But if you were hanging out with Jesus, he wouldn't have his big group event on his birthday to celebrate him.
He wouldn't have expected everyone to pay tribute to him.
He wouldn't have named it after himself.
But if you were hanging out with Jesus, he wouldn't have his big group event on his birthday to celebrate him.
He wouldn't have expected everyone to pay tribute to him.
He wouldn't have named it after himself.
The entire program is to
- separate people from their loved ones
- become the only thing in people's lives
- only have friends who are in the group
- wear people down, with challenging activities, lack of sleep, emotional manipulation
- expect people to pay tribute to leader(s)
- separate people from their loved ones
- become the only thing in people's lives
- only have friends who are in the group
- wear people down, with challenging activities, lack of sleep, emotional manipulation
- expect people to pay tribute to leader(s)
There's a creepy level of intimacy expected of members.
They normalized kissing the leader on the lips.
And if you weren't willing, it was your fault and your failing.
There are so many creepy elements.
Child abuse/rape was raised by the leader as normal. No-one disagreed.
They normalized kissing the leader on the lips.
And if you weren't willing, it was your fault and your failing.
There are so many creepy elements.
Child abuse/rape was raised by the leader as normal. No-one disagreed.
But because he's the leader.
Because he's telling members these things and the leader is good and kind and can do no wrong and has made people's lives better...
He can't possibly be wrong.
They erode reason and logic, and install a new moral compass external to the self.
Because he's telling members these things and the leader is good and kind and can do no wrong and has made people's lives better...
He can't possibly be wrong.
They erode reason and logic, and install a new moral compass external to the self.
These things are gradual.
Indoctrination doesn't happen in one session.
It takes time to wear down all your character and suspicions.
And while that happens, they devise explanations and justifications for everything that happens.
Indoctrination doesn't happen in one session.
It takes time to wear down all your character and suspicions.
And while that happens, they devise explanations and justifications for everything that happens.
It's totally a pyramid scheme.
People only make money if they attain a certain level of rank.
But the process is opaque.
Who is making decisions?
Who is succeeding and climbing the ladder?
What is the reward?
Is it only the slender pretty women?
Where's the pink Cadillac?
People only make money if they attain a certain level of rank.
But the process is opaque.
Who is making decisions?
Who is succeeding and climbing the ladder?
What is the reward?
Is it only the slender pretty women?
Where's the pink Cadillac?
The tactics of shame and threats are heavy.
They don't pay people, but they want them to devote themselves to the group completely, a financially draining cause.
What do you do? Go into debt?
Work for the organisation? For free, essentially.
Forget the world outside?
They don't pay people, but they want them to devote themselves to the group completely, a financially draining cause.
What do you do? Go into debt?
Work for the organisation? For free, essentially.
Forget the world outside?
They created a women's group, Jness, and taught misogyny.
Women should be subservient.
Women should submit.
Men deserve more sex.
Open relationships are ok. Period. No arguments.
Oh, and rape isn't that bad because victims are still alive.
So rape is ok.
Horrible logic.
Women should be subservient.
Women should submit.
Men deserve more sex.
Open relationships are ok. Period. No arguments.
Oh, and rape isn't that bad because victims are still alive.
So rape is ok.
Horrible logic.
"the person who is self-victimizing is abusing"
They would push people to go get reprogrammed if they objected.
In the group's logic, being a victim is wrong.
Not because they were harmed.
Because they're blaming the transgressor for their feelings.
And feelings are a choice.
They would push people to go get reprogrammed if they objected.
In the group's logic, being a victim is wrong.
Not because they were harmed.
Because they're blaming the transgressor for their feelings.
And feelings are a choice.
This comes across as the secret club a pubescent boy who was bullied and shamed by his parents and denied love and opportunity to grow.
Like the little mediocre boy who peaked in highschool and seethes in jealousy at everyone else.
Building an obedient private army.
Like the little mediocre boy who peaked in highschool and seethes in jealousy at everyone else.
Building an obedient private army.
"I basically fell into a pattern of compliance because it was the best way to avoid being bullied"
How else do you survive and stay in the group?
Can you leave the group and be safe?
People who left or disagreed were labelled "the enemy".
How else do you survive and stay in the group?
Can you leave the group and be safe?
People who left or disagreed were labelled "the enemy".
THEY USED TO TRACK AND RECORD PEOPLE'S BRAIN WAVES?!?!?
They partnered with a doctor.
To conduct pseudoscience.
How much do you want to guess the ethics committee never saw these studies?
It's like clockwork orange.
They partnered with a doctor.
To conduct pseudoscience.
How much do you want to guess the ethics committee never saw these studies?
It's like clockwork orange.
People had meltdowns and psychotic events as a result of the trainings.
Memory gaps.
Emotional crises.
Hallucinations.
Losing clarity of what is real and what isn't.
They are not licensed or trained psychotherapists.
They are not doctors.
Memory gaps.
Emotional crises.
Hallucinations.
Losing clarity of what is real and what isn't.
They are not licensed or trained psychotherapists.
They are not doctors.
Unsurprisingly, the people experiencing these psychological crises were women.
Because the leader wanted malleable women.
Some committed suicide.
No investigations occurred.
Because the leader wanted malleable women.
Some committed suicide.
No investigations occurred.
Martyrs and willing sacrifice was celebrated.
They were encouraged to watch movies about martyrs.
How much are you willing to do for the leader?
In a group following a "the ends justify the means" ethos, this is exceedingly dangerous.
They were encouraged to watch movies about martyrs.
How much are you willing to do for the leader?
In a group following a "the ends justify the means" ethos, this is exceedingly dangerous.
The leader promoted himself as a polymath.
He was a "gifted" kid.
But he was on academic probation in university and had a gpa of 2.26.
No triple masters in science and math like he said.
He played piano and does judo like an advanced dabbler.
He was a "gifted" kid.
But he was on academic probation in university and had a gpa of 2.26.
No triple masters in science and math like he said.
He played piano and does judo like an advanced dabbler.
Having and using charismatic people can act as a lure to pull in more people.
Having an influential famous person in the higher ranks gives the group power.
Who doesn't want the personal attention of a celebrity?
"Women mentoring women in a very specialised, deep way"
Having an influential famous person in the higher ranks gives the group power.
Who doesn't want the personal attention of a celebrity?
"Women mentoring women in a very specialised, deep way"
If anyone expects "ultimate obedience" and a "lifetime commitment" in a "master-slave" relationship?
Leave.
Run.
Quit everything associated with the person.
I'm not kink-shaming here. BDSM is built on trust and safewords. Not "ultimate obedience" in all things forever.
Leave.
Run.
Quit everything associated with the person.
I'm not kink-shaming here. BDSM is built on trust and safewords. Not "ultimate obedience" in all things forever.
Recruitment into the actual sex slave group didn't happen when they first joined.
They needed to be conditioned first.
Resistance needed to be trained out of them.
Connections to family support had to be severed.
They couldn't examine or question "Dominus Obsequious Sororium"
They needed to be conditioned first.
Resistance needed to be trained out of them.
Connections to family support had to be severed.
They couldn't examine or question "Dominus Obsequious Sororium"
("master over slave women")
If your critical thinking skills have been eroded by intensive cult tactics, you might not look into this.
People had smartphones and didn't hit google.
That's how much they trusted their superiors over this thing.
If your critical thinking skills have been eroded by intensive cult tactics, you might not look into this.
People had smartphones and didn't hit google.
That's how much they trusted their superiors over this thing.
Meanwhile they were handing over blackmail material and performing readiness drills and penance.
They were subjecting themselves to exacting standards and dietary restrictions to lose weight, precipitously.
They were getting assignments to seduce the leader.
They were subjecting themselves to exacting standards and dietary restrictions to lose weight, precipitously.
They were getting assignments to seduce the leader.
I'm taking a break. Maybe back later tonight.
This stuff is heavy and can fuck with you.
So if you do watch The Vow (9 episodes) or Seduced (4 episodes), take breaks.
Remind yourself that healthy relationships are built on trust and the ability to say no without consequence.
This stuff is heavy and can fuck with you.
So if you do watch The Vow (9 episodes) or Seduced (4 episodes), take breaks.
Remind yourself that healthy relationships are built on trust and the ability to say no without consequence.
