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At the NSW State Coroners Court today for the third day of Nathan Reynolds' inquest. Today we can expect to hear more from NSW Corrective Services officers — after hearing earlier this week from people inside who tried to save Nathan's life. #JusticeForNathanReynolds
A message from the Reynolds family yesterday to those also inside Outer Metro Correctional Centre who provided first aid and care to Nathan in his final moments. Follow @wewillfight4you for updates. #JusticeForNathanReynolds https://twitter.com/wewillfight4you/status/1318486155722067968
A few tech issues here for non-family observers (we're in a separate room to assist with COVID restrictions). Evidence currently being heard from a CO (not yet identified to us) about Nathan's call for help to the duty room. #JusticeForNathanReynolds
This CO (again, unidentified to us because of technical issues) was just asked what he and other COs were doing while someone was walking to Nathan. He does not recall. In evidence yesterday we heard that this took ten minutes. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/oct/20/nathan-reynolds-begged-for-help-before-dying-of-asthma-attack-inquest-hears #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'When you got this call, you were concerned that it wasn't legitimate?'
A: 'Every call [INAUDIBLE] you've got to check it is legitimate.'
Q: 'So your position is: I don't treat this as a medical emergency unless I see it myself.'
A: 'That's correct.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Every call [INAUDIBLE] you've got to check it is legitimate.'
Q: 'So your position is: I don't treat this as a medical emergency unless I see it myself.'
A: 'That's correct.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'You would accept that it's your responsibility that to do your job effectively, you should be familiar with these policies?'
A: 'Yes. Bits and pieces.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Yes. Bits and pieces.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'You had information that [Nathan] had breathing difficulty [per the policy], but you didn't go immediately?'
A: 'That's right.'
Q: 'You were nonetheless still of the view that unless you attended it & assessed it as an emergency, you would not call Justice Health?'
A: 'Yes.'
A: 'That's right.'
Q: 'You were nonetheless still of the view that unless you attended it & assessed it as an emergency, you would not call Justice Health?'
A: 'Yes.'
Q: 'Your practice was that you would take it seriously, but until you confirm it with your own eyes you won't confirm it as legitimate.'
A: 'Yes.'
Q: 'So you go in with a degree of skepticism about whether it could be a medical emergency.'
A: 'Yes.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Yes.'
Q: 'So you go in with a degree of skepticism about whether it could be a medical emergency.'
A: 'Yes.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Had you concluded this was a medical emergency, walking over?'
A: 'Not at that point. I had to see for myself.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Not at that point. I had to see for myself.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'What about when all the inmates were calling to you as you were walking to 'hurry up!', the knock up call requesting a nebuliser? Did at that stage trigger that it was an emergency?'
A: 'Clearly something was going on [but couldn't confirm what it was].'
A: 'Clearly something was going on [but couldn't confirm what it was].'
Q: 'The inmates had complied with your direction to move back. They were yelling things, but you accepted that what they were yelling were expressions of concern for Nathan [including a lack of nurse and slow CO response]. Is that right?'
A: 'Yes.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Yes.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'The idea that there was a risk that the inmates were going to leave then, it's fanciful isn't it?'
A: 'No.'
#JusticeforNathanReynolds
A: 'No.'
#JusticeforNathanReynolds
The CO confirms that in the six minutes they were waiting for assistance, he was monitoring inmates against potential escapes or non-compliance. He confirms no officers had formally assigned roles among themselves to tend to Nathan, one CO was near him. #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Did anyone articulate: "I will monitor his breathing." Did anyone say those words?'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'You were in no position to monitor breathing, were you?'
A: 'No.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'No.'
Q: 'You were in no position to monitor breathing, were you?'
A: 'No.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Can I suggest that your preoccupation with inmates escaping meant that you were not in a position [to assist Nathan]?'
A: 'Yes. I was managing inmates.'
Q: 'Can I suggest you were relying on inmates [to provide that assistance]?'
A: 'No.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Yes. I was managing inmates.'
Q: 'Can I suggest you were relying on inmates [to provide that assistance]?'
A: 'No.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q from Justice Health: 'Is it correct to say that no nurse played a role in your twelve and a half minute delay in eye-balling an inmate that you knew was having difficulty breathing, requiring a nebuliser and requested a nurse?'
A: 'I don't understand.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'I don't understand.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Did you take the defibrillator [to attend to Nathan]?'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'Is there a way that the nurse would have known it was taken off the crash kit?'
A: 'Yes. It's [a standard process].'
Q: 'You hadn't read [the procedure] requiring the response kit be brought?'
A: 'No.'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'Is there a way that the nurse would have known it was taken off the crash kit?'
A: 'Yes. It's [a standard process].'
Q: 'You hadn't read [the procedure] requiring the response kit be brought?'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'You don't know where the emergency response kit is located?'
A: 'The crash cart, I don't know where that is located.'
Q: 'Are you aware it's the same as the emergency response kit [in the procedure]?'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'What's the response kit?'
A: 'I don't know.'
A: 'The crash cart, I don't know where that is located.'
Q: 'Are you aware it's the same as the emergency response kit [in the procedure]?'
A: 'No.'
Q: 'What's the response kit?'
A: 'I don't know.'
Q: 'Are you aware that when you apply DR ABC, you have to remove danger [to ensure safety for responders]?'
A: [INAUDIBLE]
Q: 'Do you accept the appropriate thing to do was to clear the inmates from the area?'
A: 'When we arrived, they were spaced back.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: [INAUDIBLE]
Q: 'Do you accept the appropriate thing to do was to clear the inmates from the area?'
A: 'When we arrived, they were spaced back.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'What do you understand the duties of a responding officer to be?'
A: 'Assess the situation, establish a perimeter, contain and isolate, evacuate all uninvolved personnel.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
A: 'Assess the situation, establish a perimeter, contain and isolate, evacuate all uninvolved personnel.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
Q: 'You've already described that your training tells you that of a night three officers must respond to an incident.'
A: 'Yes.'
Q: 'Is that for the security and safety of officers, inmates and also to ensure the scene is safe for entry for health service providers?'
A: 'Yes.'
A: 'Yes.'
Q: 'Is that for the security and safety of officers, inmates and also to ensure the scene is safe for entry for health service providers?'
A: 'Yes.'
The CO is asked if the reason he stood by the door after getting Nathan a wheelchair was for security in H-Wing, in which people inside were not closed into discrete cells. He says, 'Yes, definitely, they walk around freely.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Did you appreciate that you owed Nathan a duty of care? You answered 'to a certain point'. Could you elaborate?'
A: 'With any incident, you've got to go in first to see what the problem was.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'With any incident, you've got to go in first to see what the problem was.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Do you have any difficulties today with these events?'
A: 'I do.'
Q: 'Aside from memory, has anything else concerned you about this incident?'
A: 'I have psychological problems, it's affected my family.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'I do.'
Q: 'Aside from memory, has anything else concerned you about this incident?'
A: 'I have psychological problems, it's affected my family.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Can confirm that this was CO Fawzy. All quotes to the best of my comprehension and typing speed, do check them with the transcript. #justicefornathanreynolds
Now hearing from CO Singh, another CO who was in the duty office when the first call knock-up came through from Nathan. 'It was along the lines of, "Chief, I can't breathe."' #justicefornathanreynolds
Q: 'Do you recall what was said on the second call?'
A: 'Yeah, it was an inmate, it was along the lines of 'hurry up!'.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
A: 'Yeah, it was an inmate, it was along the lines of 'hurry up!'.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
Q: 'Are you saying that it's not as secure as medium or higher security —'
A: 'It's the only unit that didn't have a contingency plan, if there was a riot situation. We discussed it numerous times that this is the only gaol where we could be surrounded and there was no back up.'
A: 'It's the only unit that didn't have a contingency plan, if there was a riot situation. We discussed it numerous times that this is the only gaol where we could be surrounded and there was no back up.'
Q: 'The CCTV shows yourselves walking to H-Wing. About 11 minutes before, the first call [came through]. It's 8 minutes after the second call that you're seen on screen.'
A: 'I'm not disputing that, but we didn't do a group hug. We didn't waste any time. I was already anxious.'
A: 'I'm not disputing that, but we didn't do a group hug. We didn't waste any time. I was already anxious.'
Q: 'What's your assessment of the seriousness of the situation?'
A: 'We've had knock ups before where we've been unsure of the severity and we've had people yelling [...] and was a footy match. When you walk in there it could be anything.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
A: 'We've had knock ups before where we've been unsure of the severity and we've had people yelling [...] and was a footy match. When you walk in there it could be anything.'
#justicefornathanreynolds
CO Singh: 'In hindsight, I could have done a million things, had a chopper there. That's what I was trying to say before, this was a situation in hindsight I could have done a lot of things.' #JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'Is there a hard and fast rule that you can't run to an incident-'
A: 'I don't differentiate between human rights. Rights are human rights yeah.'
Q: 'So you could run to an incident like this-?'
A: 'I have broken that policy in the past to do that, yeah.'
A: 'I don't differentiate between human rights. Rights are human rights yeah.'
Q: 'So you could run to an incident like this-?'
A: 'I have broken that policy in the past to do that, yeah.'
Q: 'There's no explicit discussion about whether a nurse has been requested, as you're walking over?'
A: 'Not at that point, no.'
Q: 'How long would it have taken a nurse to get there, on your understanding?'
A: 'Five, maximum ten minutes.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Not at that point, no.'
Q: 'How long would it have taken a nurse to get there, on your understanding?'
A: 'Five, maximum ten minutes.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'How far away were you when you could hear the inmates yelling for you to hurry up, yelling 'he can't breathe'?'
A: 'A hundred metres.'
Q: 'Did that impact your view of the seriousness of the situation?'
A: 'You've still got to walk in there with an open mind.'
A: 'A hundred metres.'
Q: 'Did that impact your view of the seriousness of the situation?'
A: 'You've still got to walk in there with an open mind.'
(court currently being shown footage, technical issues mean the spillover room can't see it.)
Q: 'Did [COs] pace impact how fast you were going?'
A: 'Possibly.'
Q: 'Surely you would have an idea -'
A: 'I could have walked a lot faster, but I had to stay with my team. How fast my colleagues were going, I can't comment on that.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'Possibly.'
Q: 'Surely you would have an idea -'
A: 'I could have walked a lot faster, but I had to stay with my team. How fast my colleagues were going, I can't comment on that.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
CO Singh: Nathan was sitting on the couch with a puffer in his hand, inhaling it.
Q: What was his condition?
A: He was almost [guttural gasp] along these lines.
Q: Was your immediate impression asthma attack?
A: No, I've never seen one in my life.
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: What was his condition?
A: He was almost [guttural gasp] along these lines.
Q: Was your immediate impression asthma attack?
A: No, I've never seen one in my life.
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
Q: 'What does he say when you tell him you need a nurse?'
A: 'He said the nurse was on the way, that's all I heard for five or ten minutes.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
A: 'He said the nurse was on the way, that's all I heard for five or ten minutes.'
#JusticeForNathanReynolds
technical issues, been unable to hear or see the court for the last little bit. looks like we've missed out on some significant evidence from CO Singh. will try to catch up.
