this bryan fuller discourse is truly exposing how some adults on here cannot separate very different discussions....we can hold space for minors who feel uncomfortable in fandom spaces and make bad choices bc of that. and we can also teach them why what theyre doing is bad

there is a lot in this discourse. one is how people in hollywood dont necessarily understand how stan twitter works/how to check ages/how boundaries work. another is how he shouldnt have to out himself as a CSA survivor to stop being harassed

ive seen about 70 people make this about “anti” culture and “see i was right!” and ive seen a lot of good discussion about how we attack gay men for desire and im like again...there are about 100 different conversations and people are equating them

and by people i mean including bloggers and specifically white women who talk about fandom a lot

another thing i think is not covered in this is that its not just minors, it is people of all ages, who do and say things like “queer is a slur” or whatever the hell is going on here.

however, when we (the adults in the room) talk about this, we always talk down to younger people and their concerns. i know ive done it and i try to improve.

personally, i dont think bryan should have interacted with any fanart bc this kinda shit always happens. it is a MINEFIELD if you are not WELL versed in how this shit works, but i am glad he is speaking out

i think this speaks to all the tweets about queer discourse ive been seeing too of adults talking down to minors and im like yes i am in your camp, this discourse is insulting and bad however consider why people feel this way, especially young people

anyway, i think this is why fandom’s main venue being twitter nowadays is extremely bad, and closed and moderated communities are our only way forward

i think all these discussions are discussions we have to keep having, if older people are going to pass on knowledge and create community with younger people, or else it becomes “these stupid teens with their insulting discourse” and then they only hear shit from dangerous people

like, i think it is incredibly important for queer people and people in fandom who are expressing their discomfort with certain kinds of content to be taught how that affects censorship and sex workers and privacy online, bc theyre often in a formative place ideologically

im not like articulating myself well here but basically whenever discussions like this come up i am uncomfortable with both sides of the coin

this applies to fandom/creator blowups, anti discourse, queer discourse, but i also think it ties into the own voices/outing discourse too and...the way we talk about them all the same makes me deeply uncomfortable

specifically on anti discourse ill say this once and once only bc it happens a lot: theres a difference between “i think we should critique the extreme popularity of this offensive thing in fanworks” and “i think this offensive thing should be banned”, and ...

if we taught younger people in fandom how to do that and set those boundaries we wouldnt have like...people whose entire identity is defending a ship of cartoon brothers like a moral crusade

this thread was inspired by the really important work and analysis people like @stichomancery and @SamiraNadkarni and @RukminiPande do

also bryan fuller discourse occurred on the tail end of the “r*ylos attacked a jezebel writer bc of a completely unrelated snapewife article” discourse and this applies to that too. there are whole subfandoms of shippers who consider themselves a marginalized identity

there are plenty of walled gardens in fandom right now, but bc of the majority of fandom still happens publicly, ANY criticism, even extremely mishandled good criticism, creates shared group identity to defend against the criticism, and then it gets worse and worse

anyway, i think tumblr was a slow turning point for this, being semi public but also sort of anonymous, and now it is a full on horror show on twitter/IG/tiktok

i have a lot of not sorted thoughts in this thread but also like there are whole adults who do shit like this its not just teens and we have to acknowledge why that is (and when some do, they get attacked for it with toxic positivity culture)