You keep accusing #DisabilityTwitter of creating strawmans & not knowing how to have a nuanced conversation because people disagreed with you & your BFF, while you're repeatedly creating strawman arguments & ignoring nuance while subtweeting us šŸ§µ

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310828238185181184
I'm going to start by saying, I didn't want to post a thread like this. I'm beyond exhausted & crashing hard.

But you won't stop subtweeting people to misrepresent what we said, the reasons we were hurt & upset, and pretend people just enjoy being mad.

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310828238185181184
It's so disingenuous and insulting that you keep acting like the rest of us are incapable of having nuanced conversations about disability because we don't agree with your friend or your weird offshoot tweets.
For context for this thread, this Hannah's original tweet that upset many chronically ill people. I don't have the rest of the thread, because Hannah locked her account. I'm also not including her @.
If you don't see the connection between Tweedy's tweets & Hannah's, it's because both threads & the replies, came about because of an IRL convo they had:

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310713583831973888
Then there were many offshoot threads of people expressing their opinions, feelings about Hannah's tweets. So many of them were very nuanced, the nuances they were bringing up were just dismissed or side-stepped.
I was upset by Hannah's thread. However, I wasn't particularly upset by your (Tweedy's) initial offshoot thread (linked below for context). I think it was probably confusingly expressed.

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310384257936711683
What I'm upset about is how dismissive you've been to those who dared disagree with you & how you keep misrepresenting our anger and twisting everything to fit the narrative that we're big bad meanies with no reason to be upset.
Most people's issue wasn't actually with YOUR initial tweet. It was about Hannah's initial thread, and then both of your responses to anyone who dared disagree. And I think you know that.
Let's start off with that you keep saying that no one actually said not wanting to be chronically ill is ableist.

In case those of you tuning in at home forgot, here is the direct quote that started this debacle: "Chronically ill desire for a nondisabled body is ableist."
You're subtweeting @/mattbc's thread here and tone policing our anger at being repeatedly dismissed.

Stop pretending Matt & the rest of us are unreasonable for being upset by statements like "Chronically ill desire for a nondisabled body is ableist."

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310837103622668288
For transparency, here's Matt's thread + (some of) the replies from "big cheeses" šŸ™„ that they are subtweeted

It is beyond insulting to imply they are incapable of nuanced disability conversations, when some BUILT the playground you're playing in https://twitter.com/mattbc/status/1310758117601406976
(There were other threads/replies too by "big cheeses", but that's specifically the "fuck you" one being referenced above.)
Hannah: "Chronically ill desire for a nondisabled body is ableist."

Us: "It's not ableist to not want to live in a chronically ill body."

You: "NO ONE EVER SAID THAT."

They...did though. Stop trying to convince us we're imagining things.

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310837103622668288
You keep acting like the part people are hurt by is the idea that disability is normal & no one is "above" being disabled. That's not what people are hurt by. It's the repeated implication that it's ableist to not want to live in a chronically ill body.

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310847297102594048
But also, let's break down this strawman you created in this tweet, since you're so fond of accusing the rest of us of creating strawman arguments:

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310847297102594048
1) Most people on #DisabilityTwitter DO NOT say everyone eventually becomes disabled. So many of us have repeatedly spoken about why we dislike terms like "temporarily able-bodied" and the idea that everyone will be disabled someday.
Because it's not even true! Some people will never become disabled. It's also very reminiscent of "imagine if it were your sister" rhetoric, to try to garner abled sympathy for our oppression in order to give a shit about us. It feels like ableds co-opting our experiences. Etc.
We do talk about disability being normal and natural. Nothing about that says that we're not allowed to have complicated feelings about BEING disabled or about not wanting to live in a chronically ill body. Thereā€™s, shockingly, ~nuance~ there!!
2) Not to steal your line here, but no one ever said you were "denying" them a cure. We're upset at the repeated assertions & implications that it's ableist to not want to be chronically ill
We're upset at being told that if we want a cure then we should be focusing on something else instead. As if we're incapable of wanting a cure AND fighting for a better world AND doing other things. Humans can give a shit about more than one thing at once.
We're upset at being told we're "entitled to wellbeing" while repeatedly implying not wanting to be chronically ill is ableist & saying pain isn't antithetical to wellbeing.

https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310440927106707457
It's fine to feel like pain isn't antithetical to YOUR wellbeing!! But for a lot of us pain absolutely feels antithetical to our true wellbeing & that's okay too.
What's not okay is acting like anyone who disagrees is deliberately misinterpreting you or unreasonable or ableist for still not wanting to be sick. What's not okay is twisting our words or telling us "X was never said" WHEN IT WAS. What's not okay is ignoring our experiences.
3) It's bizarre to me that you keep saying we're lacking nuance, while you keep stripping out the nuance and complications we bring up to misrepresent what we're saying.
When we're talking about wanting cures for our chronic illnesses, we're talking about CURES FOR OURSELVES, for people who explicitly want to be cured. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310707029644722176
We're not talking about forcing cures on people who don't want them, or about making it seem like the only viable option. Thatā€™s very explicitly not what weā€™re talking about. Weā€™re talking about how WE PERSONALLY want cures.
You're suddenly switching the convo to act like we're saying disabled ppl should be cured when that's not an argument anyone made. Weā€™ve been repeatedly saying, "I don't want to be nondisabled. I still don't want to have [X] chronic illness." https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310707029644722176
Disabled people talking about wanting a cure for their own disability is generally VASTLY different than people without that disability calling for cures on their behalf.

It's monumentally different than society mandating cures for disabled people.
Wanting a cure for your own chronic illness that personally makes you fucking miserable day after day is extremely different than being like "hey, neurodivergent people should be cured". Youā€™re creating strawmen AGAIN.
This was never anyone's point. We've all talked about wanting access & accommodations as a default, rather than as a retrofit or an extra. We've talked about how we DON'T want to eradicate disability; we just don't personally want to be chronically ill. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310983618752176128
We're also EXPLICITLY TALKING ABOUT DEMANDING A CURE ON OUR OWN TERMS. It's literally us, sick people, demanding a cure. On our own terms. Stop acting like we can't know what we want for ourselves. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310983618752176128
No one is asking YOU to want a cure for yourself. We're asking you to stop implying it's ableist to want a cure for ourselves, and to stop ignoring that not everyone's experience of chronic illness, EVEN IF WE HAVE THE SAME DIAGNOSES, is the same as yours. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310350343146889216
Aparna NEVER pointed at you & said "that looks terrible" (another strawman!) She was talking about how there are a LOT of people with (very-)severe ME DO want cures; many of us talk about this. She was bringing up that we also matter in this conversation. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310350343146889216
She was talking about how with severe ME, there are different unmet needs that are ignored when people act like it's assigning a hierarchy to disability or problematic to talk about the differences in needs between mild/moderate/severe/very-severe ME.
It's not using our disabilities as a cudgel to talk about the ways our experiences are different. Or to recognize the way many aspects of ME, esp (very-)severe ME, are impossible to accommodate, or that some people have different experiences of ME https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310348136548769792
If you don't want a cure for your ME, that's fine? But it's not problematic to want a cure for ourselves or to point out that a lot of people with a different experience to yours (yes, even with the same dx) are being erased in your galaxy brain Discourseā„¢
I have severe ME. Aparna was speaking for me and other people like me who have REPEATEDLY spoken out about wanting a cure. She was bringing up our existence, even if it's inconvenient to The Discourse. That's not speaking over you. That's reminding you we exist too.
Talking about how we don't want to be chronically ill is NOT saying that chronically ill lives aren't valuable, that we don't deserve to be happy or cared for, that we don't deserve to live in a society that considers our needs.
Stop accusing us of lacking nuance if you refuse to recognize the nuance here.

We can not want to be chronically ill without being ableist AND care about radically reorganizing society at the same time. Both are possible. We're doing both. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310699931141722112
We're also discussing and considering the practical limitations of potential scientific advances AND also the society we live in. We donā€™t actually exist in a vacuum. Itā€™s not unreasonable to discuss those limitations.
There's absolutely important conversations necessary about how the existence of cures could lead to cures being pushed on people who don't want one!! And the ways the ableds could weaponize cures against us! That's fair. But saying it's ableist to want a cure for yourself is not.
You keep talking about dreaming of a better world that supports chronically ill people so we no longer want/need cures, but somehow discussing how ableds not pushing unwanted cures could fit inside that dream world is a step too far?
You keep acting like we're against talking about radically reorganizing society and dreaming of a better world, when literally all of us have conversations about that ALL THE TIME on this bird app.
That's not what anyone is saying. We can have conversations about how to improve society AND recognize the one we live in simultaneously.

We can want to radically improve society AND recognize that not all disabilities can be accommodated even in a radically-different society.
It's complicated and complex and messy. There's not an easy answer, and that's fine? We were talking about that. We were talking about the complexities. But then you repeatedly say we can't understand nuance when we're doing JUST THAT.
You also keep acting like we're saying that being disabled is bad or that we're owed nondisability or that wanting a cure means we don't want to fight for a non-ableist society that cares for disabled people. We're not. We've repeatedly said we're not.
Stop accusing people of oversimplifying & saying there's no longer a conversation to be had when we're literally having conversations about the way we're marginalized AND the ways society cannot fully accommodate us. šŸ¤·šŸ» https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310851125654900737
I don't understand why you keep pretending these conversations exist in a magical utopian vacuum where there's a perfect magic treatment for all chronic illnesses, and where thoughts and feelings from the current world we actually inhabit are irrelevant. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310966415587815425
It's ludicrous to repeatedly claim that we're being superficial because we're not adhering to your overly simplistic concept of a disabled utopia. Because we're injecting a dose of reality into it & considering it from other angles or perspectives. That's not lacking nuance.
Stop creating strawmen. We've never said addressing ableism or radically reorganizing society wouldn't HELP with our chronic illnesses. We never said social biases don't influence medical research, treatment options, access to care, etc. https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310966415587815425
But it's absurd to assume in a utopian disabled society that all the aspects of our chronic illnesses that cause us suffering would have magic super effective treatments that eliminate all the things that make us feel like we're suffering without a cure? https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310966415587815425
It's not unreasonable or harmful or ableist to talk about practical limitations during discussion of a nonableist future. It's not simplistic or w/o nuance. Pretending a said future exists in a bubble where we can't consider practical issues seems pretty overly simplistic to me.
We're fighting and surviving in these trenches. We can talk about our disabled dreams AND not erase people's legitimate fears and concerns or say they're being ableist for not wanting to be chronically ill.
We can want a cure AND still fight for a better society simultaneously. We can recognize that there will STILL be complicated and messy issues even in a perfect society. I can want both a better society to live in as a chronically ill person AND still desire a cure for my ME.
Stop misrepresenting us talking about ALL THESE ISSUES SIMULTANEOUSLY as being ableist or harmful when you're refusing to engage or see our perspectives.
Stop tone policing our anger when you keep creating strawmen to pretend we said things we didn't, or make harmfully broad statements that ignore entire subsections of chronically ill people.
I don't think anyone would have been that upset about the initial threads if either of you had considered other perspectives without talking to us as condescendingly as possible, dismissing us.
If you hadnā€™t talked over us when we're talking about our OWN experiences with a disease, and consistently acting as if it's unreasonable for anyone to be hurt by your words or actions.
If a lot of people you supposedly respected were hurt and upset by what was said, have you considered that maybe, just maybe, you shouldn't dismiss all of them out of hand? https://twitter.com/the_tweedy/status/1310828239359672326
Is everyone misinterpreting you, or do they just have a reason to upset and you're pretending they're the problem here?
Stop trying to convince people everyone is reacting to something that was never said when it explicitly WAS SAID, and that people are upset for no reason. People weren't upset for no reason.
To reiterate: My problem isn't having different ideas or disagreeing. My problem is that you've repeatedly dismissed us, claimed we said things we didn't while claiming we're responding to something that was never said (when IT WAS SAID), and ignored our feelings & experiences.
My issue is you repeatedly changing the narrative to make it seem like the criticism is unfounded and none of us can comprehend what you're trying to say because we don't know how to think critically. You're insulting us.
My issue is instead of recognizing that even if you didn't intend to hurt people, you did, and instead of just trying to listen to our concerns and treat us like we're competent, you insulted us and gaslit us.
I have LOVED so many of your threads and you were someone whose viewpoints I respected. But continuing to double, triple, quadruple down and portray a manipulative narrative of what people were upset about is messed up.
Going to end this thread by saying everyone should watch this video on how to apologize because it's truly an evergreen video. (Closed captioned available!)
To further clarify: My issue is not that *I* was being subtweeted. I wasn't. This isn't about me. This about how many OTHER chronically ill people were misrepresented and gaslit. I wasn't specifically targeted despite expressing the same opinions and ideas.
I'm not upset on my behalf. I'm upset on the behalf of the other people who were ignored, dismissed, had their arguments dismissed, kept being told they didn't get nuance, and were being repeatedly subtweeted in a really disingenuous way.
If there had been any attempt to listen to us, to learn from us, to stop dismissing us, to stop condescending to us, or to apologize, most people wouldn't be upset. It's those actions that are the problem. https://twitter.com/unicornthorn/status/1311097389940314112
Update: Tweedy DMed me, but I didn't feel comfortable responding privately to a person who has repeatedly misrepresented what was said & keeps gaslighting people. https://twitter.com/unicornthorn/status/1311081735006773248
They were still twisting the narrative, so I responded & pointed them to this thread because they'd asked me (in DMs) to help understand why I had RTed them

They blocked me

I don't think they actually wanted me to help them understand šŸ™ƒ https://twitter.com/unicornthorn/status/1311129351740481537
My #1 Twitter advice is that if you see someone gaslighting people, twisting why people are upset at them & they DM you to "help them understand" or whatever, DO NOT RESPOND TO THEM IN DMS

That's a great way for them to manipulate you and the narrative further
If someone cares that they hurt people, even if it was unintentional (and I don't think it was initially intentional!), and they want to learn, they will understand why people they hurt don't feel comfortable to responding privately without backup
As @UntoNuggan said, "Life is too short to tolerate people who think gaslighting is better than admitting they were wrong" https://twitter.com/UntoNuggan/status/1311097703204519948
Oh, my other main twitter tip is to always, ALWAYS block back.
You can follow @unicornthorn.
Tip: mention @twtextapp on a Twitter thread with the keyword ā€œunrollā€ to get a link to it.

Latest Threads Unrolled:
There are a lot of misconceptions about the Turkish diaspora in Germany. Since i just finished writing an essay about this topic I thought it's time to give other people
Read more
Las mejores calculadoras online enĀ 2020A thread http://totumat.com/2020/11/26/las-mejores-calculadoras-online-en-2020/ Cuando se estudian asignaturas que requieren de cĆ”lculos complicados, nada mejor que contar con una buena calculadora.
Read more
Mitigating #ClimateChange is as much about taking up new techs as about leaving others behindMost studies focus on #coal's global downfall but another #energy tech decline is loomingRead my new
Read more