@BBCWomansHour on now.

Dr Nicola Williams & Heather Peto introduced as "two women" campaigning on self-ID. Then Heather speaks...

Awkward.

Peto doesn't feel accepted & finds discussion "toxic."

Jane Garvey acknowledges the toxicity towards women's rights campaigners.

Peto has nothing to say about this, pulls back to how hard TRAs have found it campaigning to take women's rights. Hmm.

Garvey: "Heather is left feeling she isn't accepted for who she is" - what do you say to her, Nicola?"

Nicola unpacks what self-ID actually means: giving trans-ID males women's sex-based rights. He would have been able to get a new birth certificate.

Women have the right to male-free spaces. That law can't function if some males can hide their birth sex.

The GRA already strikes a fair balance, so self-ID was rejected. Some trans people can change their sex, but at least the govt didn't ignore the conflict of rights.

Peto: this is ridiculous misinformation. The EA has sex-based exemptions. But service providers are already accepting trans people. Changing the GRA won't change sex-based rights.

When Peto was sexually harassed at work it was very nasty, says Peto. Misinformation is undermining a different type of misogyny (against TW).

Nicola rejects that her position is misinformation. I have compassion for TW. Compassion for women is what's missing.

Trans groups have changed what they're demanding from us. Not just compassion for those with dysphoria. Now they wants us to be forced by law to be compelled to accept TW are literally women.

Garvey: it's always women who have to budge up.

Peto: Trans women are women who suffer sexual harassment & violence.

Nicola: transwomen are not women. TW are TW. Born male, not female. It's the truth. Bio sex matters for women and is real. Every woman's life is shaped by being female. Males can't be female. These shouldn't be controversial.

Peto: I feel vulnerable too. It's now acceptable to abuse TW in society. Police haven't taken sexual assault against me seriously. That culture spreads to "other women" as well.

My thoughts on this @BBCWomansHour For someone who claims to have become a woman (despite what the voice we hear on the radio tell us very clearly), Peto exhibits a maddening dismissal of women's concerns & women's rights. That's just rank selfish entitlement, IMO.

Also, Dr Nicola Williams is right: a penis of not a female organ. To claim otherwise would be laughable were men not being housed in the women's prison estate, & 'educators' allowed into schools to teach kids that some lesbians have penises. None of these consequences are funny.

Also, the campaign for women's rights is not a massive breast for anyone to latch onto, in the hope that the sex with least power can somehow solve all the problems in the world. Feminism is for females. Can we at least have that for ourselves?