The dudes in this thread kicking up a fuss are really something https://twitter.com/theebirawitch/status/1309880720459026440

I've actually had this whole "emotion vs. logic isn't a real conflict" argument a LOT on this here Internet, and, unsurprisingly, the logic and evidence are all on my side, but logic and evidence rarely convinces the person I'm arguing with. Hmm, imagine that.

I'm a nerd, so, I know a lot of nerds, and lemme tell you, nerds all want to think they're Mr. Spock. Because Mr. Spock is cool. He's also in love with Jim Kirk. Is it logical to be in love with Kirk? I dunno -- maybe! But it's still an emotion, sheesh.

Like, right there, IN the thread, there's some dude whining about how women *say* they want a "sensitive" man "in touch with his feelings" (women do not actually say this, more later) and then date "bad boys" and this proves that women are less logical than men, somehow.

Because of course the kind of dude who wants to think that dudes are inherently more logical than women, is also the kind of dude who thinks it is illogical to date any man who isn't him.

Why do you want to date anybody at all though? Emotion, duh. Feeling lonely, horny, bored, whatever it is -- all emotions! Feeling entitled. Feeling hurt when she goes after some guy you feel is inferior to your own self.

We often talk about emotion in a lazy way where we conflate emotional *expression* with emotion, period.

The basic human emotions are fairly universal, but emotional *expression* is hugely cultural, which means, highly filtered through ideas about gender, class, etc.

The "males are more logical" crowd often points right at tears -- which women are more "permitted" to shed -- and gloss right over anger and lust, which men are more likely to display.

Like, if you think "sadness" is an emotion but "anger" and "horniness" aren't, I really don't know what to tell you.

We also talk about "logic" in a lazy way, where we conflate all the various types of logic and reason, including the post-facto justification for our own behavior that people do.

Like... is it *logical* to do a thing, then afterward make up a little story for why you did it? I don't know, but humans do it all the time, so...

Going back to Star Trek, Amok Time, at the end when T'Pring explains her plot to kill Kirk to get rid of Spock and marry the guy she preferred --

Spock acknowledges that her noir murder plot is very *logical* but it's also pure emotion to want to marry this one dude and not this other dude, right?

Wait, is she being arrested or anything at the end? I'm not sure I understand Vulcan law enforcement.

Anyway, in general, "I'm more logical than you" is the least credible claim a human can make. If it's true, they don't have to say it.

But the reverse, "you're more emotional than me" is a weaponized tactic.

For example, women often have our emotions used to discredit us -- if we show "too much" emotion (anger in particular) or the "wrong" kind of emotion at the "wrong" time -- suddenly nothing else we say or do matters, we have to be lying/wrong/just emotional etc.

But then men use their OWN emotions as a control tactic. They get upset -- not just angry, men cry all the time actually -- and then we have to soothe them, like a toddler.

A woman getting mad is held to invalidate all her arguments, but a man getting mad is the opposite -- he must be right! Look at how mad he is!

Which leads me to this -- my take is that "men aren't in touch with their feelings" is shorthand for "men aren't honest about their feelings" and "men are always making their feelings somebody else's problem"

Men need to take *responsibility* for their feelings. More importantly, they need to take responsibility for their *behavior*, which is driven by their feelings.

And this is my final point, I guess. Even *being* a very logical person, in the sense that you tend to think through things logically, have an understanding of abstract logic, etc., doesn't mean that your *behavior* is driven by logic.

People who describe themselves as "logical rather than emotional" typically mean "my *behavior* is driven by logic rather than emotion" and it's pretty much never true.

Emotion is subjective, internal -- not really subject to logic in any meaningful way.

The stories we *tell* about why we do what we do & feel how we feel are narrative. Narrative can *seem* like logic, but only if you're not paying attention.

Behavior, though? Behavior is empirical. Behavior can be observed.

And it takes very little observation of human behavior to reach the conclusion: we're a bunch of messed-up weirdos who constantly make up lies about ourselves which we like to tell each other.

I mean, I *like* humans, actually, but let's not pretend that we make any kind of sense.

I guess that's the end of that particular thought. Also the coffee is ready.