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So, there's a former mutual I had who I blocked for being authoritarian and rigid that bugged me after a while, but bc we debated about pedophiles in a structural/dialectical way and is mad I blocked them, they're trying to say I 'am a secret pedo.'
Uh, no -
->
Uh, no -
->
So, context.. Before I left for a few days, I decided to put my fork in the Cuties discourse because it segues into uncomfortable conversations about what/who is a predator, how that looks structurally, how we deal w/ it, and misconceptions -> https://twitter.com/HappyShiiba/status/1304939073199435776
It starts w/ that specific thread I made that's full of helpful links and research regarding it all.
Long story short, even if you view Cuties as pedophilic, you're not actually having a meaningful conversation about this structurally. It goes in a circle.
Long story short, even if you view Cuties as pedophilic, you're not actually having a meaningful conversation about this structurally. It goes in a circle.
And it's also done repeatedly every few years. When there are films or shows that depict a young person's sexuality, there's outrage over it being pedo-bait and that we should (implicitly) lean towards advocating for abstinence that looks a LOT like this conservative graphic -
We've always had a structural problem..for centuries..with viewing young people (kids, teens, etc) as property. It was going to be the thesis of my video that I may not release now bc it's too contentious.
Basically, we view them as arbiters of innocence in a world of suffering
Basically, we view them as arbiters of innocence in a world of suffering
..And they /are/ innocent in the sense that they're socially ignorant about a lot of things. But we set up society in a way where we value their labor over their physical autonomy. Even if we have child labor laws, we don't teach kids that they can say 'no' to adults.
I'm getting back to the drama in a sec. I just had to explain all of this so you get why this is important to discuss as leftists and people that don't want to repeat the current exploitative system we have.
A vital part of that discussion is educating ourselves.
A vital part of that discussion is educating ourselves.
*** tw: pedophilia ***
No one that I've seen on the left discussing Cuties has made the distinction between child predators and MAPS or pedos (minor attracted people).
Yes, the distinction is important bc the reality of it is much more cruel and sobering.
No one that I've seen on the left discussing Cuties has made the distinction between child predators and MAPS or pedos (minor attracted people).
Yes, the distinction is important bc the reality of it is much more cruel and sobering.
Similar to how the psych community is finally starting to wrap its head around the idea that /anyone/ can be an abuser and that it isn't inherently people w/ personality disorders (NPD, BPD, ASPD, etc) no matter how complicated they are, /anyone/ can be terrible.
..That isn't beneficial structurally because it means that you have to accommodate more of a variety of people and you can't demonize them and you have to put $$ into better educational material and programs for psychiatrists and mental institutions.
It's not isolated.
It's not isolated.
So, on the subject of MAPS and predators, the reality is a cruel one:
In the thread I linked, hard data and patterns observed in both sets of people show that NON child-attracted people who have histories of hurting people decide to hurt kids just bc they can.
In the thread I linked, hard data and patterns observed in both sets of people show that NON child-attracted people who have histories of hurting people decide to hurt kids just bc they can.
And if you break that down structurally, if we're not talking about black market kiddie-express rings like Epstein had where people in power purchase children to flex that they can violate what we see as 'the most innocent', the other side are poor people -
Poor people, people w/o power who are frustrated and fucked by the system who are socialized badly and cruelly who take out their internal violence on the closest people to them: their family members and children.
Like rape victims, it's the closest people to them.
Like rape victims, it's the closest people to them.
So, it's not or rarely ever 'strangers.' There are exceptions but it's an urban myth pushed by Hollywood. Sex trafficking isn't like the film 'Taken' where it's white rich girls being kidnapped by strangers.
It looks more like poor poc kids being trafficked in foster care.
It looks more like poor poc kids being trafficked in foster care.
Here's a helpful link: https://www.thorn.org/blog/5-facts-about-child-sex-trafficking-that-will-help-you-make-a-difference/
And this is another structural thing. It's poor people being driven by Capitalism to do this sort of shit or even molest and hurt their children. It simulates the that illusion you have control over something.
And this is another structural thing. It's poor people being driven by Capitalism to do this sort of shit or even molest and hurt their children. It simulates the that illusion you have control over something.
I can go further, but /that's/ how you start having a convo about this. You need to make the distinctions between socially alienated ppl who are terrified that they're MAPS who have 0 communities of people they can vent to or tell them not to offend vs people SOCIALIZED to do it.
http://Prostasia.org is the jaugernaut of resources and evidence based information to help educate about this that I can't stress enough will break it down for you if you take the time to read some things.
Anyway, so that what the argument was about.
Anyway, so that what the argument was about.
They responded to my last tweet in the thread I made and the convo can be found here in chronological order: https://imgur.com/a/2wefa0K
Basically, their argument struck me as super authoritarian, not in an ML kind of way, but basically saying, "No, these people need to be fixed."
Basically, their argument struck me as super authoritarian, not in an ML kind of way, but basically saying, "No, these people need to be fixed."
The way I engage w/ people here is that I try to build a rapport w/ whoever likes replying the most so we see each other, we get each other even if we disagree. I try to be open and to learn from people. I don't know everything.
But this was a wall.
But this was a wall.
I was fine w/ just leaving it there. I said what I had to say..'No, you can't just 'erase' that in people. You need to find a way to structurally accommodate it. Fiction/art that isn't hurting anyone bc it doesn't materially harm kids is a good way to do that.'
Prostasia also has an article on this and the tldr version is that, like I said above, in order to HELP MAPS /NOT/ OFFEND, THE SYSTEM HAS TO CARE ABOUT FUNDING PROGRAMS/EDUCATION TO MAKE IT LESS LIKELY. Fucking Socialism. /We/ have to care, but we don't.
But, they DM'd me.
But, they DM'd me.
And, if someone wants to cry 'no, fictional kid stuff DOES harm!' and tries to rely on reactionary and non-evidence based psychology that isn't evolving, I have stats.
Isolate the phrase 'very good news'. It's research that was provided: https://archive.is/Isfg7
Isolate the phrase 'very good news'. It's research that was provided: https://archive.is/Isfg7
But yeah, so they DM'd me and I wish I saved the convo in hindsight bc I usually cover my ass better and save everything as a baby data-collector but I didn't.
They made a thread about me that has half of the convo but parts I saved were these: https://imgur.com/a/t2ReIGN
They made a thread about me that has half of the convo but parts I saved were these: https://imgur.com/a/t2ReIGN
They're not in order and a bit all over the place because I was screencapping it to show my two close friends for advice bc I didn't know how to handle it. I was chill w/ them and often enjoyed their input. We were good, but they had little authoritarian habits like this (cont)
/ This thread is gonna be continued. There's gonna be an explanation of this and it'll be done. But this is the initial context thread.
Part 2 ahead. Because it gets..weird.
Part 2 ahead. Because it gets..weird.
