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Watching Lou Metro Council committee meeting with city's Chief of Public Safety Amy Hess. Topic is about city's response to recent protests - nearly 30 minutes in and we haven't learned much.
Cmte Chair Brent Ackerson, an attorney, is pushing Hess on semantics of testimony now -- what she will say, what she won't say, and so on.
"David McAtee, which is sort of a broad topic. It's like saying Abraham Lincoln." -Brent Ackerson
Instead of asking questions about events surrounding protests, Ackerson is mostly taking this time to ask questions about what he can ask questions about.
Now, Hess resumes her opening statement after a round of questions from Ackerson, the committee chair.
Amy Hess says she vividly remembers March 13 - the day Breonna Taylor was killed by police. But not because of Taylor's death, because the city activated an emergency operations center due to COVID.
Hess says teargas was used in early days of protests to disperse "riotous crowds."
They were also used to disperse crowds that were not riotous, that were peacefully protesting. I saw this happen, as did many others.
They were also used to disperse crowds that were not riotous, that were peacefully protesting. I saw this happen, as did many others.
Hess says more than 600 arrests made since protests began for protest related incidents.
Hess: We've all learned things during these protests.
Doesn't say what those things are.
Doesn't say what those things are.
LMPD Maj. Aubrey Gregory is talking about the early days of protests. Said the dept had an "incident action plan." We at @KentuckyCIR have asked for that plan but the department refused to provide it.
"The poopoo hitting the fan." - Brent Ackerson
Ackerson talking about Star Trek
LMPD Maj. Aubrey Gregory said he alone made the call to use tear gas on the first night of protests in Louisville. He says he made the call to enable police to provide assistance to injured protesters.
LMPD Chief Schroeder refuses to answer any questions in this meeting. Now committee is taking a vote to see if county attorney will file a motion to compel him to testify.
LMPD Maj Josh Judah: protest crowds changed from peaceful to wanting to attack officers. And that is when police began to determine unlawful assemblies.
"It can't be understated that what happened on May 28 was a cataclysmic event for this city."
"It can't be understated that what happened on May 28 was a cataclysmic event for this city."
Judah making it clear that police considered protest crowd "angry" and "violent" and chaotic and actively trying to attack police.
Judah said protesters had "midieval type weapons."
Judah painting the scene during early nights of protests as a street fight between protesters and police, with protesters as the aggressors.
"We had our best people out there, as many as we could, and we were completely overwhelmed"
"We had our best people out there, as many as we could, and we were completely overwhelmed"
Judah: Hundreds of officers, troopers, soldiers dedicated to this.
The "this" being civilian protests.
The "this" being civilian protests.
Judah says police got "intelligence" that a group of protesters were going to west end. And that is why police and National Guard were sent to 26th/Broadway - where a guardsman shot and killed restaurateur David McAtee.
Judah: Pepper balls came in response to direct aggression from people on ground.
( I saw SWAT members indiscriminately firing pepper balls into a very peaceful crowd, laughing while they do it.)
( I saw SWAT members indiscriminately firing pepper balls into a very peaceful crowd, laughing while they do it.)
Judah: There is nothing illegal about being on top of a parking garage with a rifle.
Responding to a broad question about this: https://www.wdrb.com/news/long-guns-confiscated-by-swat-after-men-found-atop-downtown-louisville-parking-garage-during-protests/article_32710774-bb02-11ea-aba0-5312c7812cba.html
Responding to a broad question about this: https://www.wdrb.com/news/long-guns-confiscated-by-swat-after-men-found-atop-downtown-louisville-parking-garage-during-protests/article_32710774-bb02-11ea-aba0-5312c7812cba.html
Judah: the tents in the park were a problem.
Judah paints a clear "us vs. them" mentality re: police and protesters.
Judah says officers, at one point, were in "a fight" with protesters and had "to liberate" areas of the city.
Ackerson moving on to Derby Day festivities, which was a cluster of angry, heavily armed people marching across the city. He asks why police allowed the right-wing militia and protesters face-off in front of Metro Hal w/ no police intervention.
"Help us understand." -Ackerson
LMPD Major Paul Humphrey: We could not ascertain the size of the crowd the right-wing militia was going to bring. Says LMPD was ill-prepared to address this. Only had 50 officers.
Humphrey: I made decision to not engage the crowd in downtown on Derby Day.
Humphrey says police tried to convey to protesters that there were some things that would be allowed - but lines had to be established. The rules of engagement were based on "is the juice worth the squeeze."
Humphrey: The current environment is effectively a stand-down order. "We know officers are not taking proactive steps they've taken in past."
Councilman @CMPiagentini thanks the "rank and file" and the command staff that put lives on line during "incredibly violent time in this city."
(I was present for much of early protests and saw little violence.)
(I was present for much of early protests and saw little violence.)
Piagentini asks if officers were ordered to not take certain action during protests.
Humphrey explains the "telelphone game" of decision making during protest response. Police seek group action, not individual action from officers.
Humphrey explains the "telelphone game" of decision making during protest response. Police seek group action, not individual action from officers.
Piagentini telling war tales as he asks about command structures.
Judah said KSP that came to assist are trained in crowd control scenarios like "prison riots" and "coal miner strikes"
Judah said some of the National Guard members deployed to downtown Louisville to assist in protest response were mechanics. Mechanics.
Others were firefighters, military police, and airmen.
Judah: Can't thank the National Guard enough.
A reminder: The National Guard killed a man in Louisville.
A reminder: The National Guard killed a man in Louisville.
Judah says body camera batteries are "only designed to last so long."
Reminder: the police who shot at David McAtee did not have their body camera's activated.
Reminder: the police who shot at David McAtee did not have their body camera's activated.
Judah: officers were stranded at posts w/ just food/water they could stuff in pockets.
Piagentini commends LMPD for taking responsibility for certain decisions. Says he doesn't hear that much from civilian leaders.
Piagentini: The vast majority of Louisville loves the police and what they do, though there is always room for improvement.
Councilwoman @marparker2 asks if police were spit on.
Judah says they were.
Parker says spitting is assault. And legislators should consider making spitting a harsher crime.
Judah says they were.
Parker says spitting is assault. And legislators should consider making spitting a harsher crime.
Judah says police had to move to "a more offensive mode" to try and contain protesters who came with the goal of assaulting police.
"They wanted to direct the violence against us."
Again, Judah does not shy from painting a violent scene of police vs protesters that I didn't see
"They wanted to direct the violence against us."
Again, Judah does not shy from painting a violent scene of police vs protesters that I didn't see
Parker essentially asks if protesters should have been required to get a permit and security and insurance. I don't think that's how protesting works but IDK.
Hess: City is still trying to figure out if protesters should have to be permitted.
Councilman @BillHollander says he heard from ministers, state reps and others that just didn't hear orders to disperse. Asks Judah about that. Judah says police "did as much as we could" to warn people.
"It just wasn't enough," he said.
"It just wasn't enough," he said.
Judah: Protesters were faster than us and they destroyed our city.
"Which is, I believe, their intention the whole time."
"Which is, I believe, their intention the whole time."
Councilman @BillHollander talking about damage done on Fourth Street. Asks if it was result of stand-down order from Mayor.
Judah says it wasn't.
I was on fourth street that night and saw lots of people breaking windows but virtually no police.
Judah says it wasn't.
I was on fourth street that night and saw lots of people breaking windows but virtually no police.
Hollander asks if there "was any sensitivity" about sending National Guard to west Lou.
Judah: For me, personally, there wasn't. We were sending help. We were sending them to an area that has been looted, ravaged.
Judah: For me, personally, there wasn't. We were sending help. We were sending them to an area that has been looted, ravaged.
Judah: Sending National Guard to west Louisville was a practical decision.
Judah seems to be the hype guy here for police. Agian, painting a picture that police were under constant attack and the only thing keeping the city from burning to the ground.
Judah: We used same tactics everywhere in the city the night that David McAtee was killed by National Guard and shot at police. He also says the were shot at everywhere in the city but just couldn't identify where the shots were coming from.
Judah: We are always worried about our presence exacerbating a situation.
Councilman Kevin Kramer: I have several questions.
We all do.
We all do.
Hess: Police escalate situations. Especially police in riot gear.
Councilwoman @BSextonSmith says she is impressed that police are here to answer questions.
Impressed ... that police ... are explaining ... what they do.
Impressed ... that police ... are explaining ... what they do.
Sexton Smith: Any body cam footage from anywhere on June 1?
Judah: Yes.
Listen close - you can hear the records requests making their way to LMPD - (to sit for a long time)
Judah: Yes.
Listen close - you can hear the records requests making their way to LMPD - (to sit for a long time)
I often wonder if the Council coordinates their questions - or they all just wing it.
Hess again says police can escalate situations. But that police can help keep people safe. Striking that balance is tough, she says. Optics in these types of situations weighed on city leaders during early days of protests.
Councilman Winkler: The protests have been handled effectively. Asks Hess what they would do differently.
Hess: We were dealing with riots. A pandemic. A new chief. A new command structure. And, "mistakes were made."
Among those, communication breakdowns.
Hess: We were dealing with riots. A pandemic. A new chief. A new command structure. And, "mistakes were made."
Among those, communication breakdowns.
Hess: This has all been a necessary growth. And now we have an improved process.
Judah says he wish city leadership would have recognized the threat and been more aggressive dealing with it.
"I do not believe this was a random event."
On that, he is right, the protests were in response to the police killing of Breonna Taylor and systemic racism.
"I do not believe this was a random event."
On that, he is right, the protests were in response to the police killing of Breonna Taylor and systemic racism.
Hollander referencing tweets from reporters (one is me) discussing seeing police fire pepper balls indiscriminately at crowd.
Judah: We don't allow our officers to walk around looking for targets to pepper ball.
LMPD Mjr. Aubrey Gregory says he is good with charging the protesters on @kyoag's yard with a felony. Says he followed the law to the letter. Comes after police have been talking about using discretion for much of the past hour.
Judah said he sent LMPD and National Guard to 26th/Broadway because he was "seeing problems" and police said they couldn't handle it.
Reminder: this is where National Guard killed David McAtee. And where there were no protests.
Reminder: this is where National Guard killed David McAtee. And where there were no protests.
A council spokesman said this meeting was slated to end at 6:30p. It's now 6:55p and council members don't seem to be runnning out of questions. Would love to see @LMPD and @louisvillemayor do this same thing with reporters.
Councilwoman @CWCindiFowler says protests have inspired lawlessness across the city. The Big Boy was looted, cars are stolen, people shot in the street. She doesn't provide specifics.
Fowler: Would Tyler Gerth be alive if no one was allowed to camp in Jefferson Square Park?
Gerth was shot and killed in the park: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/06/28/breonna-taylor-jefferson-square-park-shooting-victim-identified/3274412001/
Gerth was shot and killed in the park: https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2020/06/28/breonna-taylor-jefferson-square-park-shooting-victim-identified/3274412001/
Fowler opines if protests should just have to get a permit from now on. IDK if this is how the First Amendment works.
Fowler: The city kicks homeless people out of park, why can't we kick out protesters?
Judah now talking more about "coordinated attacks" against police.
Council members are not asking for any evidence or specifics about anything Judah is referencing.
Council members are not asking for any evidence or specifics about anything Judah is referencing.
In nearly 4 hours of testimony from police, no council members ask about an after-action report. An after-action report is required to be completed by LMPD after any civil unrest incident. But - they didn't do one after the 1st week of protests. https://kycir.org/2020/07/28/after-civil-unrest-like-may-protests-lmpd-must-analyze-its-response-it-hasnt/
Judah says LMPD didn't respond to a break-in at an ATM at 18th/Broadway because of the "certainty of a gun battle."
"I was not willing to put my officers in a situation where they may be killed or they may have to kill someone else over an ATM machine."
"I was not willing to put my officers in a situation where they may be killed or they may have to kill someone else over an ATM machine."
Council pres. @CouncilmanJames asks why LMPD shot pepper balls within seconds after arriving at 26th/Broadway - where police were not under threat.
Judah doesn't really answer. Says police and National Guard were sent across city and responses were different.
Judah doesn't really answer. Says police and National Guard were sent across city and responses were different.
Judah said National Guard was to assist with "variety of missions" depending on their skill set.
Some were mechanics.
Some were mechanics.
James thanks Judah for his "passion for our city and our police department."
Ackerson is now wrapping up the meeting.
"Your answers were candid, and some people might not be happy with your answers. But I am much more educated."
Adjourned.
"Your answers were candid, and some people might not be happy with your answers. But I am much more educated."
Adjourned.
