I want to talk a bit about audio producers and the importance of titles. Buckle up for a thread here, because this is going take a minute.

When I was at NPR I was a member of AFTRA, which then merged with SAG to form SAG-AFTRA. I was a proud union member, because they negotiated for things like contributions to our 503bs (the 401ks of the non-profit world), overtime, hazard pay, and of course, salaries and benefits.

When I came on board in 2003 as an unpaid intern, I could look at the pay scale and know EXACTLY (with a few exceptions) what someone made. The salaries for everyone from a Production Assistant to a Correspondent, to a Newscaster were spelled out.

I knew I wanted to be a producer. I hate being in the spotlight. I love hearing stories. I thrive on understanding complex problems and concepts. The path for me was simple. I started as an unpaid intern. Then I got a job as a temp PA. I was THRILLED.

The typical path from entry level up was Intern --> Temp Production Assistant --> Production Assistant (staff) --> Assistant Producer --> Associate Producer --> Producer I --> Producer II --> Producer III --> Senior Producer.

That was my dream - to start at the bottom and earn my way up that ladder. (What can I say, I have a midwestern father who instilled the value of hard work, never expecting that I was better than anyone else, and knowing that I had a lot to offer)

So I followed that track. I got hired to work on Morning Edition as a PA. I spent a lot of time on the overnight! I made mistakes. I cried about them at 7am in an edit booth, but I always came back the next day. Soon I learned to direct the show!

Side note: if you heard Ratatat's "Wildcat" or complained about the use of Ratatat's "Wildcat" as music on Morning Edition during the late 2000s, that was me. And I am not sorry.

I became an Assistant Producer and stayed in that position for 6 years. Was it because I was an unmotivated xennial? No. I worked my butt off. I learned from my mistakes. I acquired new skills. I was told I was ready to be promoted but the money wasn't there.

But this really wasn't about money for me. Honestly, back then, I probably would have done the job for free. (Wait, I DID do the job for free.)

I didn't realize it then - back in the late 2000s/early 2010s but that title probably cost me some opportunities. We were moving into the first great podcast boom, and audio producers with experience in storytelling were becoming something of a hot commodity.

But I was an assistant producer, for 6 years! Why? What was wrong? Nothing and honestly, this isn't about me. (Truly) This is about the importance of a title that matches the work that producers, and really ANYBODY does.

When someone's title doesn't match their job function - they aren't included in keyword searches that recruiters use. Maybe they start to question the value of their own work.

Lots has changed in public radio and there is A LOT more work to be done. This thread isn't about that - but it's not totally separate either. Because once NPR and other audio shops started paying their interns ... guess what? The diversity of applicants skyrocketed.

The immediate reaction was "This is fantastic! We are bringing in the future of public media and podcasting!" And we were, but we were also too quick to pat ourselves on the back. Becuz we did not have ways to support the diversity joining our ranks.

I think we know how this has gone.

But I digress.

The other problem is that largely - this influx of new, more diverse talent was sitting at the bottom of the ladder ... for a LONG time. They were temp PAs for years. I know one WOC who was a PA for more than 8 years.

And this is problematic, because we were training the FUTURE OF PUBLIC RADIO AND PODCASTING. The future is now, and how can BIPOC be those leaders when they have to spend a lot of time at the bottom rungs, with titles that do not match their capabilities.

This has to change. There need to be clear paths forward and that has to be clearly articulated. The goalposts can't move. If you want talent - you have to be willing to pay for it in both $$$ and title.

I don't want the future of public media or podcasting to look like me. That would suck. Let's start by being honest about the work that people in this industry ACTUALLY do. Thank you for coming to my Thread Talk.