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So a few people have DMd me this clip from @padspoker regarding GGPoker so I thought I'd add a few thoughts.
(First, @cardplayerlife great execution on this format - production is really high. Love the style. Some interesting discussion indeed.) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/709180931?t=1790s
(First, @cardplayerlife great execution on this format - production is really high. Love the style. Some interesting discussion indeed.) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/709180931?t=1790s
The most interesting claim here is the idea that UK players are tagged as Ireland. Pads suggests this is due to tax. From the player perspective, winnings (as I know he knows) are tax-free in the UK, so when he talks tax here I can only assume he means from operator perspective
The claim here is players are said to be in Ireland, so that GGPoker does not have to declare the UK's point of consumption taxation on that player?!
That's a pretty out-there claim. Why would a player do this? (there's nothing in it for them unless they get a kickback?)
That's a pretty out-there claim. Why would a player do this? (there's nothing in it for them unless they get a kickback?)
But UK POC is relatively low, so this seems like a HUGE risk for GG just to avoid a little GGR tax in their one big regulated market that they are licensed in. This would be a massive breach of their licensing.
So, I'd love to here more on this. Perhaps I misunderstood.
So, I'd love to here more on this. Perhaps I misunderstood.
The general conversation about GG operating in more black/grey markets I generally find a little disingenuous.
All operators have some exposure to these markets. We could talk about:
- China
- Russia
- Slovakia
- Poland
- Norway
- Germany
- Netherlands
All operators have some exposure to these markets. We could talk about:
- China
- Russia
- Slovakia
- Poland
- Norway
- Germany
- Netherlands
Big, public companies have both exited, and *re-entered*, some grey markets in the last couple of years. This includes PS and PP.
GGPoker have a slightly more aggressive risk profile, but all operators have *some* risk profile.
GGPoker have a slightly more aggressive risk profile, but all operators have *some* risk profile.
Re. GGPoker regulated in Curacao - they are also licensed in the UK and Malta.
PokerStars and practically everyone else do almost all their international biz from Malta today (partypoker and a few others are the exception, based in Gibraltar). So not really "less regulated."
PokerStars and practically everyone else do almost all their international biz from Malta today (partypoker and a few others are the exception, based in Gibraltar). So not really "less regulated."
No sure how much GG action is declared in Malta right now, but that came in ahead of the WSOP partnership so seems tied to it. They are looking at moving into more regulated markets. So their position here isn't much different to other operators.
We could talk explicitly about China if we wanted. Or Russia. PS have 2 brands that explicitly target these 2 markets. Or Germany, where PP is a huge player and made vast amounts in an unregulated market (it has been "regulating" for countless years).
For some recently examples, in 2016, under GVC management, it reentered 21 markets after a re-evaluation of risk. https://pokerindustrypro.com/news/article/27815-partypoker-re-open-21-national-markets-under-gvc-management
Exactly 1 year ago today, GVC then exited a bunch of markets.
So until one year ago, partypoker was operational in e.g. Vietnam, Indonesia, Japan. https://pokerindustrypro.com/news/article/210804-legalization-changes-prompt-partypoker-withdraw-multiple
So until one year ago, partypoker was operational in e.g. Vietnam, Indonesia, Japan. https://pokerindustrypro.com/news/article/210804-legalization-changes-prompt-partypoker-withdraw-multiple
Also a year ago, GVC was fined for targeting Dutch customers (huge no-no for that market).
I bring these up just to demonstrate that every poker operator is constant evaluating, reevaluating, their market position thru risk assessment. https://pokerindustrypro.com/news/article/210798-regulator-fines-gvc-targeting-dutch-customers-ideal
I bring these up just to demonstrate that every poker operator is constant evaluating, reevaluating, their market position thru risk assessment. https://pokerindustrypro.com/news/article/210798-regulator-fines-gvc-targeting-dutch-customers-ideal
It's not like post-UIGEA (pp) or post-BF (ps) everyone was white as white. Remember when bwinparty exec *arrested* in Belgium for operating in the country without license?
Or how everyone was in Australia before they passed a new law saying we'll dob you in to other regulators?
Or how everyone was in Australia before they passed a new law saying we'll dob you in to other regulators?
Pads also is making the non-explicit point here that people are playing with VPNs from other countries (including the US).
That's something I've seen a lot of people claim but seems to date unproven. Has anyone surface an email from GG suggesting they VPN from the US?
That's something I've seen a lot of people claim but seems to date unproven. Has anyone surface an email from GG suggesting they VPN from the US?
Since BF again sites sit on a spectrum of strictly enforcing a US ban and aggressively policing VPN usage, to more turning a blind eye or more lax .
e.g. PokerStars is known to heavily police it. Other sites, less so. It is obviously a hard metric to measure.
e.g. PokerStars is known to heavily police it. Other sites, less so. It is obviously a hard metric to measure.
To the bigger point - 100% yes, the landscape is unequal and unfair. Public companies absolutely take on less risk that private ones (cf. PokerStars becoming dominant poker provider because it stayed in the US post UIGEA, while party exited).
But the industry has always fought on these uneven battlegrounds.
