I've seen people on twitter lately have been mocking Luigi and PT mains for not finding up throw combos for over a year… I’m convinced Cloud mains have been using limit wrong since the game came out. Here’s a thread on that, starting with the why this problem exists: (1/17)

In Smash 4, limit could be kept indefinitely once charged. This made limit simple – get it as soon as possible. SSBU limit has a timer, but most haven’t adjusted the gameplan, so it went from “Get it ASAP” to “get it as often as possible”, since Cloud IS better with limit (2/17)

But this is WRONG! Why? 3 examples:

1) Jigglypuff… a character Cloud beats, but who can also carry you offstage at 50 and gimp you. If you’re at 10% and Puff is at 35% and you get limit, maybe you LCS her to 68%, but then she can carry you offstage and you lose a stock. (3/17)

So how do we play around this? Simple. We don’t go for limit every time – we try to manage the meter so that if Puff carries us off, we end up having limit offstage. Thus, I aim for about ~70% meter in neutral, such that a fair chain gives me limit to recover. (4/17)

2) Joker… not as easy as Puff, and Arsene can be strong. You’re both at 50%, and you charge limit ASAP and LCS Joker… now he has Arsene, so one stray bair could be your death from an edgeguard… and you’ve lost the lead. Where’d we go wrong? (5/17)

The key vs Joker is to time limit vs Arsene. Limit lasts 15s to Arsene’s 30s, so if Joker camps limit, he loses half of Arsene, and if he gets hit by LCS, he loses about half to damage + time to recover… in either case, you can use limit to greatly reduce Arsene’s impact. (6/17)

3) Shulk… the monado is powerful, and while you’ve gotten limit charged at 110%, limit cross slash fails to KO Shulk, because he can change the future with shield monado! This renders limit breaks all but useless vs Shulk! Except… it doesn’t, not even a little. Why? (7/17)

Shield monado lasts for 6s, and has an 18s cooldown. Once Shulk has used shield monado, you can finish charging limit, and you have the full 15s to find a limit break [up b oos, LCS anti-air, whatever] where Shulk CANNOT use shield art, as it’s on cooldown! (8/17)

How do we force him to use it? One idea: Cloud has a good upsmash, a strong bair, and sliding ftilt/dash attack cover landings well. Then the goal is put Shulk in a position where he feels the need to use shield art, maybe via up throw, dtilt, or ledge trapping. (9/17)

This is only 3 MUs, but the lesson is clear: getting limit ASAP does NOT benefit Cloud the way managing the meter and timing a limit break based on the timer can! Limit is a resource to be managed, and getting it as often as possible is going to be suboptimal in many MUs. (10/17)

There are, of course, caveats. I see limit as usually having 3-4 purposes:
1) saving your stock with a recovery
2) sealing a stock with a limit break
3) raw damage as lead extension after a KO/to catch up or take the lead
4?) Fear/timer drain
And these goals can conflict. (11/17)

There’s also the fact that other people can camp out limit, and while you can counterplay this, you won’t always get that LCS or FT you want. More to the point, sometimes they can hit you enough to force a limit early, and get what they want later. (12/17)

But Cloud still can charge limit to mitigate these situations, and seek out limit breaks at situations that are ideal for having access to that resource. And Cloud can plan ahead for where to charge limit to try to avoid those risks as much as possible. (13/17)

[As an aside, these sorts of concerns go out the window as percents rise. If Cloud is at 180% vs Bowser, limit ASAP is probably ideal, to squeeze one more in. And if Joker is at 180, Arsene being deleted by LCS isn’t Joker’s issue (14/17)]

Looking into different MUs to figure out where limit can best push advantage, or mitigate a difficult aspect of a matchup, seems to me like it could shift games and sets decisively. But just getting limit ASAP is hurting Cloud players in some key spots. (15/17)

So then what should change is how/when Clouds decide to charge limit. You’re at that solid 80% limit with Puff at 60 offstage and Cloud at 40? Ledgetrap or edgeguard or do nothing, but don’t charge limit and get it early. You don’t need it yet! Make the limit count! (16/17)

Any feedback on the thread is appreciated. I've tagged some Cloud players (plenty more I should tag but w/e) that I want to read this so they can think about if they want to change how they play Cloud at all.

@LunaTheCloud @Sparg0ssb @Niko_SSBU @KasTheCloud

(17/17 END THREAD)