Join us in ten minutes for our second event this evening, a conversation between @JuliaGillard and @PatsKarvelas #mwfdigital https://twitter.com/MelbWritersFest/status/1293059738641395713

'I want to start the conversation with an apology of sorts. Journalists like me watched the revolting sexist treatment you endured with a sense of disbelief about how to deal with it. We didn't speak up more.' – @PatsKarvelas #mwfdigital

'I wrote this book for women – young women, in particular, might still be thinking of their career paths and women in the mid-to-upper career range who can make a difference. I also wrote it for corporate leaders.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'We started this book with a hypothesis: how much of sexism and attitude towards women leaders is about culture and context, and how much of it is universal?' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'Whether it was women leaders from New Zealand, the US, the UK, Liberia, Malawi or Chile, they all reported that they felt this disproportionate focus on their appearance.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'Many of them used the same tools to
solve it, which was to try and adopt a standard look so they didn't look very different each day.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'I was disturbed by Jacinda Ardern saying she didn't think things would've turned out the same way for her in Australia due to our media and political system. I'm Australian and I'd like to see more women in leadership in the country' – @PatsKarvelas #mwfdigital

'It's different to be the third than the first. There was Jenny Shipley, Helen Clark and then Jacinda Ardern. New Zealand's one of two nations in the world that have been led by a woman three times; the other
one's Iceland.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'The rate of change is much slower than either of us would like, but I don't want to underestimate how much has been achieved.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'I think we're in that really sticky, stubborn middle bit now
where there's structural changes still to do
to enable women to come forward more easily, but there's also a whole lot of psychological stereotyping that's in all of our brains.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'We used Cordelia Fine's research to debunk neurosexism, that notion that men are from Mars and women are from Venus.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'But women and men have been socialised differently and so different traits have been praised and rewarded.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'Jacinda Ardern is only the second female world leader to give birth while in office; the first was Benazir Bhutto.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'We don't transpose the questions about work and family life on to men. The assumption is that there's someone at home making it possible for them.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'I used to sometimes resent the terminology of "you don't have a family". I do have a family. I'm not a mother but that doesn't mean I haven't got family bonds and ties that are important to me.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'The foundation stone to me on why there should be more women leaders is: merit is equally distributed between the sexes. Everyone has the right to lead their life without artificial barriers placed on them.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'The reason diversity has an extra benefit is that you get different perspectives on life. But the foundation stone is that it's morally right.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'Jacinda Ardern and Angela Merkel have been lauded for how they've managed the pandemic but they're very different people and they're very different leaders. Women can be leaders in different ways.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'Once Black women leaders stepped into their international meetings, they were discounted for being women, but also women of colour. I couldn't have written about that without Ngozi's insight and the book is immeasurably strengthened by that.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'No one says to men that they can't complain about anything until the poorest man in the world is leading a good life.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'As the women's movement has won some advances, we've gotten to the stage where there are a few women in senior positions. It can be easy for these women to think that they have to compete against one another instead of working to bust the game open.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'I'm a very big believer that the first step to fixing any problem is shining a light on it and talking about it. And I hope this book does that.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'I assumed the maximum differential treatment would be early in my prime ministership. I underestimated how the gendered insults and abuse would grow over time as the controversial circumstances of the government grew.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'The stereotypical ultra macho bulldozer bluster-style leadership that a number of leading men have been able to get away with has met its match with the coronavirus. The virus will not give way to your bluster.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'It's a bit like unveiling my portrait in Parliament House. I can be absolutely delighted about it but I'm glad it's not in my family home. I have the same reaction to looking up the misogyny video on YouTube.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital

'For a while, I resented how my misogyny video was flattening everything else. I got a few things done but all everyone wanted to do was talk about that speech. But I'm at peace with it now.' – @JuliaGillard #mwfdigital