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Endless, tiresome, stupid, short-sighted noise about Keir Starmer being insufficiently *something* and not a proper *something else*
I'm going to post this, then mute it. And you know what: you should mute yourselves too, cos this shit has gone on too long. Enough. Stop
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I'm going to post this, then mute it. And you know what: you should mute yourselves too, cos this shit has gone on too long. Enough. Stop
>
"He's not socialist, and it's a socialist party"
Before defending Labour, know what it actually is
"The Labour Party is a centre-left political party that has been described as an alliance of social democrats, democratic socialists and trade unionists"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
Before defending Labour, know what it actually is
"The Labour Party is a centre-left political party that has been described as an alliance of social democrats, democratic socialists and trade unionists"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_(UK)
"He's a Blairite"
"Not Corbyn" =/= "Tony Blair". There are a million incremental steps between those two people. Pretty much every person who has ever voted Labour, or ever would vote Labour, is on one of those steps. They are not all on Corbyn's step. Live with it.
"Not Corbyn" =/= "Tony Blair". There are a million incremental steps between those two people. Pretty much every person who has ever voted Labour, or ever would vote Labour, is on one of those steps. They are not all on Corbyn's step. Live with it.
"What kind of socialist accepts a knighthood?"
Clement Attlee, founder of the NHS, became Viscount Prestwood and Earl Attlee.
If you think accepting an honour precludes you from being left-wing, explain that.
Clement Attlee, founder of the NHS, became Viscount Prestwood and Earl Attlee.
If you think accepting an honour precludes you from being left-wing, explain that.
"He's just another smart lawyer"
He was born in a council house and went to the local grammar, which he didn't invent, cos he was 11.
If your idea of socialism precludes social mobility, you need to look hard at yourself. But please do it in silence.
He was born in a council house and went to the local grammar, which he didn't invent, cos he was 11.
If your idea of socialism precludes social mobility, you need to look hard at yourself. But please do it in silence.
"He's a professional politician"
You know who gets beaten by professionals? Amateurs.
We tried amateurs, and the professionals kicked us up and down Whitehall and out of half the north. Maybe some professionalism isn't a bad thing.
You know who gets beaten by professionals? Amateurs.
We tried amateurs, and the professionals kicked us up and down Whitehall and out of half the north. Maybe some professionalism isn't a bad thing.
"He's not making any ground against the Tories"
He's the preferred choice for PM, and beats Johnson on all counts. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/11/competent-likeable-decisive-keir-starmer-beating-boris-johnson-on-all-counts
He's the preferred choice for PM, and beats Johnson on all counts. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/11/competent-likeable-decisive-keir-starmer-beating-boris-johnson-on-all-counts
"Corbyn would have won if not for plotting"
Of 15 PMs since the war, just 5 got the job by winning a GE. The rest were failing, and plots ousted them.
Corbyn was failing. There were plots. This is normal. If he couldn't cope with normal, he was in the wrong job.
Of 15 PMs since the war, just 5 got the job by winning a GE. The rest were failing, and plots ousted them.
Corbyn was failing. There were plots. This is normal. If he couldn't cope with normal, he was in the wrong job.
"Starmer is chasing Tory votes"
I know it's a difficult concept, but in order to win, you need some people who voted for another party last time to vote for your party next time. If this is beyond you, maybe don't speak about politics for a while.
I know it's a difficult concept, but in order to win, you need some people who voted for another party last time to vote for your party next time. If this is beyond you, maybe don't speak about politics for a while.
"He's not opposing Tories"
You know what voters elect? Governments. Not oppositions. If your idea of politics is just to oppose, you're doomed to be an opponent.
He's presenting us as a viable government, which people can vote for.
You know what voters elect? Governments. Not oppositions. If your idea of politics is just to oppose, you're doomed to be an opponent.
He's presenting us as a viable government, which people can vote for.
"He isn't calling for resignations"
Let's role-play this, shall we?
Starmer: RESIGN
Johnson: No
Who won that debate? The guy who got what he wanted, that's who.
Let's role-play this, shall we?
Starmer: RESIGN
Johnson: No
Who won that debate? The guy who got what he wanted, that's who.
"He isn't calling the govt to account"
Watch PMQ. Simple as that. Just shut up and watch PMQ
Watch PMQ. Simple as that. Just shut up and watch PMQ
"He sacked RLB but didn't sack X"
She then refused to speak to the PM's office. Starmer offered her a way out. She refused.
You don't get to be in a cabinet and not play by cabinet rules. She knew that.
That's why she was sacked and X wasn't. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey_uk_5ef50f91c5b6acab283efcb2
She then refused to speak to the PM's office. Starmer offered her a way out. She refused.
You don't get to be in a cabinet and not play by cabinet rules. She knew that.
That's why she was sacked and X wasn't. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/keir-starmer-rebecca-long-bailey_uk_5ef50f91c5b6acab283efcb2
"He isn't campaigning"
We are 2000 days from an election. If he campaigns now
1: All his attack lines will be blunted by election day
2: The Tories have 2000 days to learn them and figure out how to counter them
3: The voters will be sick of it
We are 2000 days from an election. If he campaigns now
1: All his attack lines will be blunted by election day
2: The Tories have 2000 days to learn them and figure out how to counter them
3: The voters will be sick of it
"What's the policy?"
In 4 years we will have left the EU with a deal nobody knows. Nobody knows what will happen with Covid19. Nobody knows if Johnson will still be PM. Nobody knows who'll be in the White House.
Why have detailed policy now? Why not just use the time to think?
In 4 years we will have left the EU with a deal nobody knows. Nobody knows what will happen with Covid19. Nobody knows if Johnson will still be PM. Nobody knows who'll be in the White House.
Why have detailed policy now? Why not just use the time to think?
"He's not aggressive enough"
Cos voters all love aggression! Look how popular shouting has made Labour.
Voters facing a crisis want competence and decisiveness. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/11/competent-likeable-decisive-keir-starmer-beating-boris-johnson-on-all-counts
Cos voters all love aggression! Look how popular shouting has made Labour.
Voters facing a crisis want competence and decisiveness. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jul/11/competent-likeable-decisive-keir-starmer-beating-boris-johnson-on-all-counts
"All you're doing is chasing votes"
Yes, a political party is chasing votes. And?
Yes, a political party is chasing votes. And?
"Where's your principles"?
Make a list of 10 policies.
If you abandon 2 of them, 10% more people will vote for you, and you get to enact the other 8 policies.
If you stick to all 10, you lose, and enact nothing.
My principles say: win and do 8. You do nothing by losing.
Make a list of 10 policies.
If you abandon 2 of them, 10% more people will vote for you, and you get to enact the other 8 policies.
If you stick to all 10, you lose, and enact nothing.
My principles say: win and do 8. You do nothing by losing.
"Brexit lost us the election and that's all because of Starmer"
Reasons people abandoned Labour in 2019
Brexit: 19%
Corbyn: 35%
Starmer: Not mentioned https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words-why-voters-abandoned-labour
Reasons people abandoned Labour in 2019
Brexit: 19%
Corbyn: 35%
Starmer: Not mentioned https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2019/12/23/their-own-words-why-voters-abandoned-labour
"People love Jeremy"
Net popularity (positive opinions minus negative opinions)
Starmer: plus 1
Johnson: minus 2
Corbyn: minus 37 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Jeremy_Corbyn
Net popularity (positive opinions minus negative opinions)
Starmer: plus 1
Johnson: minus 2
Corbyn: minus 37 https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/explore/public_figure/Jeremy_Corbyn
"Labour voters want Corbyn back"
No they don't. 6% of Labour voters want Corbyn, which is 2% of the entire voting public.
The other 98% of voters want you to shut up about that guy they just rejected for the umpteenth time, and look to the future. Which is where we will live.
No they don't. 6% of Labour voters want Corbyn, which is 2% of the entire voting public.
The other 98% of voters want you to shut up about that guy they just rejected for the umpteenth time, and look to the future. Which is where we will live.
"Corbyn could have won"
When, exactly, was this winning going to happen?
Lost:
2016 referendum
2017 general election
Over 120 councils
7 MPs and 6 Lords
2019 EU elections
2019 general election
But he did win this. So... https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/jeremy-corbyn-has-lowest-leadership-satisfaction-rating-any-opposition-leader-1977
When, exactly, was this winning going to happen?
Lost:
2016 referendum
2017 general election
Over 120 councils
7 MPs and 6 Lords
2019 EU elections
2019 general election
But he did win this. So... https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/jeremy-corbyn-has-lowest-leadership-satisfaction-rating-any-opposition-leader-1977
"This isn't about Corbyn, it's about Starmer"
No it isn't. Tell the truth. It's always about Corbyn and it always will be. But this is politics, and losers go, and that's the end of the matter.
No it isn't. Tell the truth. It's always about Corbyn and it always will be. But this is politics, and losers go, and that's the end of the matter.
"Why is Labour losing if Starmer is so good?"
Corbyn was less popular than the party
Starmer is more popular than the party
If the party is still doing badly, maybe it should stop acting like a bag of angry snakes, and demanding ideological purity that has NEVER existed
Corbyn was less popular than the party
Starmer is more popular than the party
If the party is still doing badly, maybe it should stop acting like a bag of angry snakes, and demanding ideological purity that has NEVER existed
I implore everybody, Corbyn fans, Starmer fans, absolutely everybody - to think a little bit about what Labour wants to achieve.
Winning an election. So we get to help people. Which is what we are in this for. Not for purity or sects.
Just think. But please, do it quietly.
Winning an election. So we get to help people. Which is what we are in this for. Not for purity or sects.
Just think. But please, do it quietly.
I am immediately muting this thread, because OH MY GOD the stupid shit I'm going to see if I don't.
And I'm going to block anybody who writes to be directly about it. Left. Right. Centre. Anybody.
I am sick of this, and it has to end. Accept reality, or accept endless defeat.
And I'm going to block anybody who writes to be directly about it. Left. Right. Centre. Anybody.
I am sick of this, and it has to end. Accept reality, or accept endless defeat.
