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Let& #39;s follow the example given in this thread:
Let& #39;s say that I& #39;m a business owner and you& #39;re looking for a job.
I hire you for 10$/h. You create 15$/h worth of value*.
(*we& #39;ll reassess this assumption later)
Let& #39;s say that I& #39;m a business owner and you& #39;re looking for a job.
I hire you for 10$/h. You create 15$/h worth of value*.
(*we& #39;ll reassess this assumption later)
Surplus Value theory goes like "Oh, there& #39;s a difference between how much you pay your employee and how much you earn.
So you& #39;re stealing from him"
No.
So you& #39;re stealing from him"
No.
Marx had a correct idea: the interests of labor and capital are opposite.
An employee will try to earn as much as possible while working as little as possible.
An entrepreneur will try to make his employees do the opposite (max work min pay).
An employee will try to earn as much as possible while working as little as possible.
An entrepreneur will try to make his employees do the opposite (max work min pay).
But in terms of production, labor and capital work TOGETHER.
If a worker uses machinery, utilities, pretty much anything that costs money, he& #39;s using capital to produce.
Let& #39;s put an example.
If a worker uses machinery, utilities, pretty much anything that costs money, he& #39;s using capital to produce.
Let& #39;s put an example.
Let& #39;s say that I hire you to dig a big hole in the ground for 10$/h.
Have you ever digged a hole by hand? It& #39;s hard, if not impossible in hard grounds.
You& #39;ll need equipment to dig it.
Have you ever digged a hole by hand? It& #39;s hard, if not impossible in hard grounds.
You& #39;ll need equipment to dig it.
A second-hand excavation machine costs at least $10K.
But hey, good news! My company has one and lets you use it to dig the hole.
So you go diggin and finish the job within the hour.
But hey, good news! My company has one and lets you use it to dig the hole.
So you go diggin and finish the job within the hour.
You earn your 10$/h.
Now, surplus value theorists go like "Hey but you& #39;ve earned it 15$ and only gave the guy 10$! It& #39;s unfair".
Question: could you have generated that value WITHOUT the excavation machine?
I doubt it.
Now, surplus value theorists go like "Hey but you& #39;ve earned it 15$ and only gave the guy 10$! It& #39;s unfair".
Question: could you have generated that value WITHOUT the excavation machine?
I doubt it.
Surplus value theorists defend that "without labor, companies crash because nothing gets produced"
No shit, Sherlock. The same happens if you remove capital from the equation!
Capital AND Labor work TOGETHER while producing stuff!
No shit, Sherlock. The same happens if you remove capital from the equation!
Capital AND Labor work TOGETHER while producing stuff!
So, part of the 15$ value is generated due to the labor input, and part is generated due to the capital input.
Those 5$ that the firm is getting in profit, is the reward generated by the capital input.
Those 5$ that the firm is getting in profit, is the reward generated by the capital input.
If you want to capture those 5$ for yourself, go and buy the machinery and work until you capitalize your $10K investment.
"B-but that& #39;s so hard!"
Welcome to entrepreneurship, son.
"B-but that& #39;s so hard!"
Welcome to entrepreneurship, son.
Now, Mr @HasBezosDecided puts the example of Bezos.
Would Amazon workers be able to generate value if Amazon infraestructure didn& #39;t exist?
Again, I doubt it
Would Amazon workers be able to generate value if Amazon infraestructure didn& #39;t exist?
Again, I doubt it
If you are a surplus value theorist, I know what you& #39;re going to say:
"B-but workers also built the infraestructure!"
Which is true, but we also get back to the labor-capital tag team example.
"B-but workers also built the infraestructure!"
Which is true, but we also get back to the labor-capital tag team example.
If the entrepreneur& #39;s money or his own share of work enters the equation (yes, providing direction/strategy counts as work), some of the value produced was enabled by him.
Thus, he deserves a cut of the value generated.
Thus, he deserves a cut of the value generated.
We& #39;ve already established that when you generate value:
· Some is generated by labor
· Some is generated by capital
No Labor = No value
No Capital = No value
Now, do you remember the *note we marked earlier? The "you get 15$/h in value".
It& #39;s a simplistic abstraction.
· Some is generated by labor
· Some is generated by capital
No Labor = No value
No Capital = No value
Now, do you remember the *note we marked earlier? The "you get 15$/h in value".
It& #39;s a simplistic abstraction.
The surplus value idea comes from the industrial era.
Jobs which produce commodities allow to make easy cost-profit calculations.
You generate X screws in an hour, and each screw is sold by Z$, so you generate X * Z$ an hour.
Jobs which produce commodities allow to make easy cost-profit calculations.
You generate X screws in an hour, and each screw is sold by Z$, so you generate X * Z$ an hour.
(Again, good luck producing screws without the heavy machinery involved)
Surplus value made "sense" when you could easily calculate how much each worker + machine generates.
Note how I& #39;m not saying "how much each worker generates BY ITSELF", as surplus theorists put it.
You& #39;d have to make nuanced calcs in order to extract the value of labor alone.
Note how I& #39;m not saying "how much each worker generates BY ITSELF", as surplus theorists put it.
You& #39;d have to make nuanced calcs in order to extract the value of labor alone.
Separating L-based value from K-based value is problematic even if you know how much do they generate in total (15$/h)
Let& #39;s complicate it even more: what if you don& #39;t get an easily measurable output?
Let& #39;s talk about service-based jobs.
Let& #39;s complicate it even more: what if you don& #39;t get an easily measurable output?
Let& #39;s talk about service-based jobs.
What is the surplus value of an engineer?
What is the surplus value of a medic?
What is the surplus value of a programmer?
What is the surplus value of a waiter?
What is the surplus value of a medic?
What is the surplus value of a programmer?
What is the surplus value of a waiter?
Service-based jobs aren& #39;t like industry-based jobs.
You don& #39;t get x screws at z price.
You gotta approximate what the value of the service is, given your revenue.
You don& #39;t get x screws at z price.
You gotta approximate what the value of the service is, given your revenue.
In my case, as a Data Analyst, my "surplus value" can range from 0$ to billions of dollars.
If I get a company to double his earnings due to a data-based insight, hey, good for them!
I wouldn& #39;t be able to profit from that if I was by myself.
If I get a company to double his earnings due to a data-based insight, hey, good for them!
I wouldn& #39;t be able to profit from that if I was by myself.
TLDR;
· Does "surplus value" exist?
Yes, it& #39;s called profit.
· Is "surplus value" money entrepreneurs steal from workers?
No. Part of the value is created due to the investment in capital.
· Can "worker only surplus value" be calculated with pinpoint precision?
No.
· Does "surplus value" exist?
Yes, it& #39;s called profit.
· Is "surplus value" money entrepreneurs steal from workers?
No. Part of the value is created due to the investment in capital.
· Can "worker only surplus value" be calculated with pinpoint precision?
No.
If you have any questions, hit me up either in the comments or in the DMs!
