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*sighs heavily* OP wasn& #39;t reacting well even before I put my 2 cents in, but this just... literally all 3 of us in that conversation were non-binary, that is not an auto-win condition. 
https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤦♂️" title="Mann schlägt sich die Hand vors Gesicht" aria-label="Emoji: Mann schlägt sich die Hand vors Gesicht"> I& #39;ve been blocked, afaict, but I had a thought or 3 prompted by this.
I& #39;ve been blocked, afaict, but I had a thought or 3 prompted by this." title="*sighs heavily* OP wasn& #39;t reacting well even before I put my 2 cents in, but this just... literally all 3 of us in that conversation were non-binary, that is not an auto-win condition. https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤦♂️" title="Mann schlägt sich die Hand vors Gesicht" aria-label="Emoji: Mann schlägt sich die Hand vors Gesicht"> I& #39;ve been blocked, afaict, but I had a thought or 3 prompted by this." class="img-responsive" style="max-width:100%;"/>
1) I try not to tell anyone what they "really" meant, autistic or not, but words and phrases also have external meanings and relevant connotations, whether you are aware of them or not. Can get tricky and unwieldy, but its not avoidable.
2) I want to assume that OP has a better working definition of misogyny than that and just misspoke under pressure. *My* basic understanding of misogyny is the oppression, by patriarchal systems, of what is classed as "woman", as the contrast to "man"--and man=human.
This is a cissexist system and cis manhood and cis womanhood are valued above transsexual genders. IMO, transness of all kinds get functionally classed as "third", incoherent, genders. (To simplify.)
3) Light CW for discussion of transmisogynistic ideas
The topic in thread was about the "socialized as" and "perceived as" phrases. As a transmasc person, I& #39;ve struggled with those phrases. On one hand, there was my desire to stand in solidarity with my trans sisters...
The topic in thread was about the "socialized as" and "perceived as" phrases. As a transmasc person, I& #39;ve struggled with those phrases. On one hand, there was my desire to stand in solidarity with my trans sisters...
I& #39;ve heard many of them speak out against the "socialized male" stuff for... well, nearly a decade now.
OTOH was my own lived experience where I knew that I *was not socialized as a (cis) male*. So I must have been socialized female, right?
OTOH was my own lived experience where I knew that I *was not socialized as a (cis) male*. So I must have been socialized female, right?
Everyone kept insisting I was a girl, placing the demands and expectations of cis girlhood and cis womanhood on me, I experienced the real, material effects of misogyny and sexism as a victim, primarily.
What I see right now is that the language we have and use fails us.
What I see right now is that the language we have and use fails us.
I& #39;ve read apologetics of "socialized as a girl" from many trans men over the years, often nodding along in agreement. But using the language of the cisnormative binary reinforces & strengthensthe enormously harmful and transmisogynistic idea that trans women are "socialized male"
I can& #39;t and won& #39;t tell any individual trans person how to speak of their childhood and enculturation, but here are 2 points to consider:
- we are all subjected to the broad acculturing messages about boys and girls. Girls police boys& #39; masculinity and boys police girls& #39; femininity
- we are all subjected to the broad acculturing messages about boys and girls. Girls police boys& #39; masculinity and boys police girls& #39; femininity
- the cisheteropatriarchy insists that there are 2 and only 2 genders, very loudly. This is a lie. Not just in the "non-binary genders are valid" sense, but in a real, material, gender-as-social-class sense. With greatest emphasis on the villification of trans womanhood.
This is way long already, so to sum up: if you mean "cis men benefit", say that. Don& #39;t rely on cultural binary gender shorthands.
And @ fellow trans masc or TME ppl: did you learn about transness first thru learning of trans *women* or *transmisogyny*?
End thread.
And @ fellow trans masc or TME ppl: did you learn about transness first thru learning of trans *women* or *transmisogyny*?
End thread.
ACTUALLY 1 more thing https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤣" title="Lachend auf dem Boden rollen" aria-label="Emoji: Lachend auf dem Boden rollen">
Still more than a bit boggled by OP saying trans women count as "perceived as girls" when growing up but AFAB doesn& #39;t. If anything shows how the (C)ASAB terms have been watered down...
(+ uuuuuh p sure *seen as wrong gender* is like. The Trans Thing.)
Still more than a bit boggled by OP saying trans women count as "perceived as girls" when growing up but AFAB doesn& #39;t. If anything shows how the (C)ASAB terms have been watered down...
(+ uuuuuh p sure *seen as wrong gender* is like. The Trans Thing.)
