Read on Twitter
9/
...have to be labelled "gatekeepers", that way the plucky young rebels who ... uh ... run every single publisher, control every fandom committee at every con, run the blogs for the big bookstores, etc can decry those mean mean "gatekeepers" who ... disagree with them.
...have to be labelled "gatekeepers", that way the plucky young rebels who ... uh ... run every single publisher, control every fandom committee at every con, run the blogs for the big bookstores, etc can decry those mean mean "gatekeepers" who ... disagree with them.
10/
e.g. here people who disagree that current SF is best SF are "bullies"
How DARE some random individual blogger be mean to the poor old publishers / awards committees / cons / industry?
BULLY !
Tor screams out in pain as it strikes you. https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289951206672961536
e.g. here people who disagree that current SF is best SF are "bullies"
How DARE some random individual blogger be mean to the poor old publishers / awards committees / cons / industry?
BULLY !
Tor screams out in pain as it strikes you. https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289951206672961536
11/
And then, of course, the entire thread is peppered with mood-affiliation slanders.
Again and again and again people who like the old variety and tumult of SF are tarred with a bizarre association with the Confederacy https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289954911023636486
And then, of course, the entire thread is peppered with mood-affiliation slanders.
Again and again and again people who like the old variety and tumult of SF are tarred with a bizarre association with the Confederacy https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289954911023636486
13/
This is objectively a red herring.
No one, to a good approximation, is arguing that "the history of SF is the history of white male writers".
We had Alice Bradley Sheldon, Octavia Butler, H M Hoover, Madeleine L'Engle, H M Hoover, Anne McCaffrey, T https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289960398142222337
This is objectively a red herring.
No one, to a good approximation, is arguing that "the history of SF is the history of white male writers".
We had Alice Bradley Sheldon, Octavia Butler, H M Hoover, Madeleine L'Engle, H M Hoover, Anne McCaffrey, T https://twitter.com/jessnevins/status/1289960398142222337
14/
So OP is making up a God-damned lie out of whole cloth, putting it in the mouths of people who never said it, and then - bravely, so bravely! - disagreeing with a thing that no one said.
So OP is making up a God-damned lie out of whole cloth, putting it in the mouths of people who never said it, and then - bravely, so bravely! - disagreeing with a thing that no one said.
15/
Also, OP is pulling the classic maneuver - not addressing the actual point that someone is making (e.g. "I dislike Obama's expansion of executive power, that whole 'pen and phone' thing"), replacing it with a fake point ("they hate blacks") and using that to dodge the point
Also, OP is pulling the classic maneuver - not addressing the actual point that someone is making (e.g. "I dislike Obama's expansion of executive power, that whole 'pen and phone' thing"), replacing it with a fake point ("they hate blacks") and using that to dodge the point
16/
Since OP never cites any specific quote in his thread (always a good technique when you're witch hunting - "the witches are out there, trust me - don't listen to their side of the story!") we can't be sure exactly what he's REALLY complaining about.
...but I have a hunch.
Since OP never cites any specific quote in his thread (always a good technique when you're witch hunting - "the witches are out there, trust me - don't listen to their side of the story!") we can't be sure exactly what he's REALLY complaining about.
...but I have a hunch.
17/
and it's what I was alluding to earlier: people (like me) who complain that the current SF market is narrow, full of bad writers, and ignorant of the history of the genre.
Wow, feminist SF!
...but we've had that for 50 years.
SF that grapples w trans issues!
Had that too
and it's what I was alluding to earlier: people (like me) who complain that the current SF market is narrow, full of bad writers, and ignorant of the history of the genre.
Wow, feminist SF!
...but we've had that for 50 years.
SF that grapples w trans issues!
Had that too
18/
SF that considers things from the perspectives of racial minorities!
Yep, had that.
SF that considers overbearing capitalism.
Yep, yep, yep.
SF that considers things from the perspectives of racial minorities!
Yep, had that.
SF that considers overbearing capitalism.
Yep, yep, yep.
19/
Ignorance of the history of the art form doesn't enable the "new voices" to throw off the old constraints - it just makes them boring, monomaniacal, and redundant.
We explored this stuff for the first time 60+ years ago. It's time to JOIN that conversation, not restart it
Ignorance of the history of the art form doesn't enable the "new voices" to throw off the old constraints - it just makes them boring, monomaniacal, and redundant.
We explored this stuff for the first time 60+ years ago. It's time to JOIN that conversation, not restart it
20/
I suppose me telling youngsters, women, BIPOC and all the rest "read your God-damned history and learn what the field is all about" is man splaining?
Well, if you want something 'splained, get a man who's conversant w the topic to do it.
You're welcome.
I suppose me telling youngsters, women, BIPOC and all the rest "read your God-damned history and learn what the field is all about" is man splaining?
Well, if you want something 'splained, get a man who's conversant w the topic to do it.
You're welcome.
21/
Same nonsense going on in this thread (h/t @drethelin )
https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289656583220129792
Science fiction publishing and fandom was welcoming to women, hispanics, blacks, Asians, gays, drug users, and all sorts of other outsiders HALF A CENTURY AGO.
This is invented nonsense.
Same nonsense going on in this thread (h/t @drethelin )
https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289656583220129792
Science fiction publishing and fandom was welcoming to women, hispanics, blacks, Asians, gays, drug users, and all sorts of other outsiders HALF A CENTURY AGO.
This is invented nonsense.
22/
OP, and her entire generation, are invested in this narrative that they've FINALLY overthrown the exclusionary old boys network that tried so hard to keep them out.
...but it's lies and nonsense. It never happened
They cherry pick a few facts, like many authors were white
OP, and her entire generation, are invested in this narrative that they've FINALLY overthrown the exclusionary old boys network that tried so hard to keep them out.
...but it's lies and nonsense. It never happened
They cherry pick a few facts, like many authors were white
23/
...because OF COURSE THEY WERE, in a country that was mostly white. And most authors were male, because OF COURSE THEY WERE, in a genre descended from two-fisted-pulps and popular science magazines.
And they take these facts and then assume "obviously there was exclusion".
...because OF COURSE THEY WERE, in a country that was mostly white. And most authors were male, because OF COURSE THEY WERE, in a genre descended from two-fisted-pulps and popular science magazines.
And they take these facts and then assume "obviously there was exclusion".
24/
Notice the jujitsu here: if you respect old authors for writing great stuff (Lovecraft) or old editors for building enthusiasm (Campbell) then you are RACIST and are driving people away.
Your appreciation of the greats is an ACT OF VIOLENCE. https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289655684263444482
Notice the jujitsu here: if you respect old authors for writing great stuff (Lovecraft) or old editors for building enthusiasm (Campbell) then you are RACIST and are driving people away.
Your appreciation of the greats is an ACT OF VIOLENCE. https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289655684263444482
25/
More of the jujitsu here: she's turned this into an either / or, fallacy of the excluded middle. She declares, with zero evidence, that appreciating the dead means that you hate the living / current wave of SF authors and fans. https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289656583220129792
More of the jujitsu here: she's turned this into an either / or, fallacy of the excluded middle. She declares, with zero evidence, that appreciating the dead means that you hate the living / current wave of SF authors and fans. https://twitter.com/aliettedb/status/1289656583220129792
26/
In fact, these are orthogonal. You can like or dislike the past masters, and you can like or dislike the current generation.
(In fact, I like the past masters and dislike the current authors, but the connection is not causal; it's two distinct opinions)
In fact, these are orthogonal. You can like or dislike the past masters, and you can like or dislike the current generation.
(In fact, I like the past masters and dislike the current authors, but the connection is not causal; it's two distinct opinions)
27/
What part of it is false? My assertion that the current gatekeepers of SF are the major publishers of SF, and that they're left of center?
Why do you think that that's false?
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290410267394871296
What part of it is false? My assertion that the current gatekeepers of SF are the major publishers of SF, and that they're left of center?
Why do you think that that's false?
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290410267394871296
28/
I didn't IGNORE it. I QUOTED it.
And then I asked you for clarification, with my two hunches as to what you were talking about.
That question still stands. I am honestly curious what part of my tweet (#5, above, in this thread) you think is false
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290411299625676800
I didn't IGNORE it. I QUOTED it.
And then I asked you for clarification, with my two hunches as to what you were talking about.
That question still stands. I am honestly curious what part of my tweet (#5, above, in this thread) you think is false
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290411299625676800
29/
Shecky likewise finds tweet #5 in this sequence false, or funny, or something.
@SheckyX , would you care to explain what part of tweet #5 you disagree with?
https://twitter.com/SheckyX/status/1290411241043886081
Shecky likewise finds tweet #5 in this sequence false, or funny, or something.
@SheckyX , would you care to explain what part of tweet #5 you disagree with?
https://twitter.com/SheckyX/status/1290411241043886081
30/
Also, kind of curious what @shaunduke means by "that level of dishonesty". I quoted his tweet, which quoted mine. All the material is here, for anyone who wants to read it.
Anyway, invite still open @shaunduke - what part of #5 do you disagree w?
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290411299625676800
Also, kind of curious what @shaunduke means by "that level of dishonesty". I quoted his tweet, which quoted mine. All the material is here, for anyone who wants to read it.
Anyway, invite still open @shaunduke - what part of #5 do you disagree w?
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290411299625676800
31/
I agree it's not rocket science.
So ... what part of tweet #5 in this sequence do you think is false? That Tor, etc are left of center? Or something else? There were multiple claims in my tweet.
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290412416141066245
I agree it's not rocket science.
So ... what part of tweet #5 in this sequence do you think is false? That Tor, etc are left of center? Or something else? There were multiple claims in my tweet.
https://twitter.com/shaunduke/status/1290412416141066245
32/
so many dumb socialists in my mentions today
sad ; I enjoy arguing with a better tier of leftist https://twitter.com/bojack90s/status/1290413295732699138
so many dumb socialists in my mentions today
sad ; I enjoy arguing with a better tier of leftist https://twitter.com/bojack90s/status/1290413295732699138
33/
https://twitter.com/jacobkesinger/status/1290681317810634753
not sure why you'd search there
let's go to http://Tor.com new releases
>>>
https://twitter.com/jacobkesinger/status/1290681317810634753
not sure why you'd search there
let's go to http://Tor.com new releases
>>>
34/
https://publishing.tor.com/new-releases/
C. L. Polk - black, female
Nino Cipri - trans / nonbinary
Nino Cipri (again) - trans / nonbinary
K.M. Szpara - queer / trans
Eddie Robson - white male (!!!), British
Nghi Vo - Vietnamese, female
Alex Irvine - white male (!!!)
https://publishing.tor.com/new-releases/
C. L. Polk - black, female
Nino Cipri - trans / nonbinary
Nino Cipri (again) - trans / nonbinary
K.M. Szpara - queer / trans
Eddie Robson - white male (!!!), British
Nghi Vo - Vietnamese, female
Alex Irvine - white male (!!!)
35/
Tamsyn Muir - female, New Zealand
Corey J. White - white male (!!!) Australian
Martha Wells - female
Katharine Duckett - female, queer
Jeffrey Ford - white male (!!!)
Carrie Vaughn - female
Zen Cho - female, Chinese (?)
Andrea Hairston - black, female
Tamsyn Muir - female, New Zealand
Corey J. White - white male (!!!) Australian
Martha Wells - female
Katharine Duckett - female, queer
Jeffrey Ford - white male (!!!)
Carrie Vaughn - female
Zen Cho - female, Chinese (?)
Andrea Hairston - black, female
36/
Kathleen Jennings - female, Australian
Tamsyn Muir (again) - female, New Zealand
Carrie Vaughn (again) - female
Kathleen Jennings - female, Australian
Tamsyn Muir (again) - female, New Zealand
Carrie Vaughn (again) - female
37/
so in a literary genre that is overwhelmingly white, male, and American, we have 1 white American male ... out of 18 authors
trans, who make up 0.01% of the population, make up 1/6 of the authors listed
women, who write 25% of the SF overall, are 11/18 Tor authors
so in a literary genre that is overwhelmingly white, male, and American, we have 1 white American male ... out of 18 authors
trans, who make up 0.01% of the population, make up 1/6 of the authors listed
women, who write 25% of the SF overall, are 11/18 Tor authors
38/
gays, who make up 1% of the population, are 1/9 of the Tor authors listed
gays, who make up 1% of the population, are 1/9 of the Tor authors listed
39/
It's absolutely clear to anyone remotely familiar with the science fiction genre that Tor is blatantly filtering out submissions from white American men and publishing stuff based on SJW criteria
It's absolutely clear to anyone remotely familiar with the science fiction genre that Tor is blatantly filtering out submissions from white American men and publishing stuff based on SJW criteria
40/
I don't know what the word "label" means in this context, but when I linked to PUBLISHING DOT TOR DOT COM I was pointing you to new books published by Tor publishing https://twitter.com/jacobkesinger/status/1290690362810523655
I don't know what the word "label" means in this context, but when I linked to PUBLISHING DOT TOR DOT COM I was pointing you to new books published by Tor publishing https://twitter.com/jacobkesinger/status/1290690362810523655
41/
"Let those flatter who fear, it is not an American art" - Thomas Jefferson
https://twitter.com/bc_nbc/status/1290690691362824192
"Let those flatter who fear, it is not an American art" - Thomas Jefferson
https://twitter.com/bc_nbc/status/1290690691362824192
