My final reply to @AlFinlandi in the name of Allah, the most beneficent the most merciful. The one and only true god the prophet pbuh and Jesus pbuh both acknowledged. The God who is one, with no one sharing his dominion and does not beget nor was he begotten and to him, there is https://twitter.com/AlFinlandi/status/1285340707331411968
Nothing in creation of similitude . Just wanna say something before I start. There will be A LOT of reading and referencing in this thread and I will reference and cite differently. I will write out the citation sometimes, screenshot the footnote next to the quote referenced, or
I will highlight the footnotes as well according to the color in which I highlighted the citation. Most of the time I change color while highlighting and that's because I wanted to give your eyes some relief from just yellow which might strain your eyes so without further a due,
Bismillah, @AlFinlandi starts off stating that I strawmanned his argument about John 8:58 and states the context is "theophanic". He problem with that is these theologies are based on the understanding of baukam's "divine identity" theory which scholars like James Dunn have
Stated that the divine identity theory fails on many levels and that Jesus was worshipped through more as a mediator and not a God by himself (pics from his book did the first xian worship jesus"
(Source, ibid)
It's also understood that jesus didnt believe in any philosophies of either the greeks and jews so the understanding of jesus would be understood through a strict unitarian Jewish monotheistic lens and not thought a platonian trinitarian lens
Not only that, it's also known that jesus nor his desciples preached or believed in a trinity. So why believe in one? We'll see why the concept of the trinity began to be worshipped and that the only real way to validate it is through the church and not the bible
It's also understood amongst trinitarian scholasticism that the dogma and language of the trinity are obviously different and that the bible in it's over 1300 instances of talking about god NEVER makes instances of godhead within the godhead in matter of fact we have no
Unambiguous proof the monotheism the jews understood was altered via the new testament.
Jesus stated the shema in mark 12:29 affirming the understanding of his fellow jews of the time as to what it means as much as @AlFinlandi would like to think otherwise
I hope it's getting abundantly obvious that jesus was a Unitarian monotheist which preached it and was understood by his desciples but if not, I'll make it more obvious inshallah
I will get later into the development of the trinity and the "logos" "pre existance" and godhood of jesus but I really just wanna drive this point home. Schoalrs concede jesus and his desciples didnt believe in the trinity and it is based in platonian philosophical principles we
Will later see people like justin martyr and origen of Alexandria stating. What happened was the tragedy of using philosophy alien to the Jewish tradition which altered its meaning and created a different understanding
As L.L.Paine in his history of the evolution of trinitarianism states that there was no break in the understanding of the unitarian monotheism of jesus and that he didnt bring a new concept of who god is
As Edward schweizer correctly states "jesus' creed is in conformity with the jewish confession ie, the shema which, jesus himself recited. It isnt rational to believe jesus brought a new understanding when its understood he never believed in one nor did his followers believe in
One. As harold O.J. Brown states jesus didnt modify anything of the underatanding of the jews it's actually an astonishment to scholars as to how jesus became god in the first place seeing the backdrop of his time and beliefs were Jewish to the core. What I'm trying to show with
This is that jesus wasnt, didnt believe he was, and nor did his desciples believe he was god and theres absolutely no backing of any claims outside of the claims and interpretations of the church whom itself had church fathers who had different concepts on who god was
https://twitter.com/AbuUlaymo/status/1288507534446407680?s=19
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