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Getting ready for the Trump v. Vance teleconference at the SDNY with Judge that begins at 10 a.m. Just dialed in. Will "live tweet" when it commences. Back soon1/
Judge Victor Marrero is on the call. He asked for "Arun," to confirm he was getting things ready. Assuming that he is a law clerk. Arun will "give a signal" when everything is ready.
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Judge Marrero greeting everyone with a good morning. He is confirming that the parties can hear him. They can.
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Jude said "The court scheduled this proceeding following the mandate" from the 2nd Cir on July 10th "which came upon a ruling by the United States Supreme Court" remanding to them.
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Reminds us that the 2nd Cir. had upheld his "this court's" decision denying the president's request to block the grand jury subpoena.
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Court does note that a prosecutor cannot go on a fishing expedition. Said that he was previously satisfied earlier that DA Vance subpoena of Mazars for Trump's tax returns and financial records was acceptable, not overbroad.
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The judge also said he previously addressed the "bad faith" analysis. He had concluded that he would not impute bad faith the DA Vance without a "stronger showing from the president." So he's asking for "different facts" that Trump's counsel wants to present.
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Now the judge is discussing the legal standard to apply to determine whether a subpoena is issued in bad faith.
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I'll need to go back and listen to this detailed hypothetical. Love it. Feels like we are in a law school classroom.
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Third area to discuss (the first was overbreadth, the second was bad faith & harassment). Now he is asking about Article II burdens. How do these differ from what the court (meaning this judge) previously considered.
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Do parties believe standards for retaliation differ from bad faith or harassment, and if so, how?
Further, could the president detail how issuing the subpoena to Mazars would interfere with his Article II duties under the Constitution, and if so, which specific duties
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Further, could the president detail how issuing the subpoena to Mazars would interfere with his Article II duties under the Constitution, and if so, which specific duties
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The judge is now moving on to the schedule. Says this is a "lengthier" schedule than 6 days.
Why do you need so much more time for briefing the "limited issues involved here" compared to earlier.
Giving both sides 20 minutes
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Why do you need so much more time for briefing the "limited issues involved here" compared to earlier.
Giving both sides 20 minutes
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Judge: "Who will be speaking for the president."
Will somebody is responding. He said he "tried" to write it all down and apologized if he missed anything
Note: He can check my twitter feed.
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Will somebody is responding. He said he "tried" to write it all down and apologized if he missed anything
Note: He can check my twitter feed.
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Weird, the president's lawyer says he's basing his thinking not just on the majority decision at Supreme Court, but also concurrences. Yet concurrences are not the law.
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President's lawyer defends request for extra time to deal with remand. Says he wants to submit an amended complaint. Instead of going through a lengthier process. He is now trying to say this is not a properly-tailored subpoena
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President's lawyer says court can quash or narrow.
Said it's copied for congress (YET they already argued this).
Also talking about bad faith.
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Said it's copied for congress (YET they already argued this).
Also talking about bad faith.
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Unbelievable. Trump's lawyer said "The president is still reviewing the subpoena and has not decided which arguments he'll raise upon remand."
LOL. He's just stalling. The president should have sent his lawyers in prepared.
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LOL. He's just stalling. The president should have sent his lawyers in prepared.
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He is saying "efficiency" is not a basis for issuing a "wildly overbroad subpoena."
Once again, I don't see how this is any different than what was raised already and REJECTED by this judge.
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Once again, I don't see how this is any different than what was raised already and REJECTED by this judge.
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Oh, good. We are getting to Trump's lawyer responding to the Article II issues.
Trump lawyer said it would be "The physical burdens and the distractions" instead of "stigma."
But again said president hasn't decided. FFS
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Trump lawyer said it would be "The physical burdens and the distractions" instead of "stigma."
But again said president hasn't decided. FFS
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This is embarrassing. This lawyer is unprepared. Shameful.
On retaliation, said it would be about "choosing president as target."
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On retaliation, said it would be about "choosing president as target."
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Trump lawyer is now talking about discovery. "If an amended complaint is filed, which we hope the court will allow."
Huge delaying tactic.
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Huge delaying tactic.
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Trump wants access to things that were redacted.
Again he's looking at scope of subpoena.
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Again he's looking at scope of subpoena.
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Said the schedule earlier was a preliminary injunction context and that's why he wants the longer time frame and notes that Vance has agreed.
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Trump's lawyer is done. Judge now is asking about the hypothetical re the determination of bad faith. Asks for a specific response to the hypo.
Lawyer asks Judge to repeat hypo.
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Lawyer asks Judge to repeat hypo.
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Here's the hypothetical: Suppose a hypothetical DA possesses documentary or testimonial evidence showing that entities of people associated with a hypothetical president engaged in criminal transactions that could impact the hypothetical president. . .
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And suppose the hypothetical DA believed this could provide sufficient grounds for an indictment or exculpation. How should the DA proceed in bringing this information to the court's attention?
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Trump's lawyer responded and said "in camera review" would provide the court the opportunity to review facts and protect the DA's information.
In camera means privately in the judge's chambers away from the public.
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In camera means privately in the judge's chambers away from the public.
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Now it's Carey Dunne from the Manhattan DA's office. "Without due respect to my colleagues on the other side. . What the president's lawyer is seeking here is delay. Everyday that goes by" the president achieves the de facto "absolute immunity."
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Dunne notes that while president has right to articulate new claims and allegations.
He does not get to take the DA's deposition. He's just like a corporate CEO. He should not get these additional special rights, as per SCOTUS
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He does not get to take the DA's deposition. He's just like a corporate CEO. He should not get these additional special rights, as per SCOTUS
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Dunne says, whatever he has left, bring it on in one final submission. "Let's not let delay kill this case."
We cannot let "justice delay become justice denied."
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We cannot let "justice delay become justice denied."
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"Not a single recitation of a single new fact" and that's what's "key here."
Once this amended complaint gets filed, that will become clear.
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Once this amended complaint gets filed, that will become clear.
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Dunne said the president's lawyers have had a year to do the digging to see what facts they can find.
We are confident that there is nothing new. And court has already rejected these.
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We are confident that there is nothing new. And court has already rejected these.
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Dunne is now answering the judge's questions.
1. Overbreadth, already addressed that subpoena is almost identical to House. Objections already rejected
2. No different standard for retaliation differ from bad faith or harassment,
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1. Overbreadth, already addressed that subpoena is almost identical to House. Objections already rejected
2. No different standard for retaliation differ from bad faith or harassment,
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Dunne also addressed the hypothetical
Said no need to get into filings under seal or discovery, but would be willing if required
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Said no need to get into filings under seal or discovery, but would be willing if required
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Dunne now gets to
3. Article II burdens. There is no burden at all because "he of course doesn't have to do anything to respond to the subpoena."
He should not even have standing to raise burdensomeness or overbreadth which should be Mazars
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3. Article II burdens. There is no burden at all because "he of course doesn't have to do anything to respond to the subpoena."
He should not even have standing to raise burdensomeness or overbreadth which should be Mazars
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By the way, I am noting that several news outlets yesterday said this hearing would only be about scheduling and no discussion of merits.
They were wrong. Glad I am listening
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They were wrong. Glad I am listening
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Dunne said he welcomes a shorter schedule than what the parties agreed to. He really wants to conclude this with one final filing by the president, followed by the motion to dismiss.
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Dunne concludes, "Our office's position, your honor is "bring it on."
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Trump's lawyer is upset that Dunne is welcoming a shorter schedule.
Also said Trump is not an "ordinary citizen". Pointing to the part of the SCOTUS decision. Says court gave special protection against fishing expeditions.
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Also said Trump is not an "ordinary citizen". Pointing to the part of the SCOTUS decision. Says court gave special protection against fishing expeditions.
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Trump's lawyer is MISREADING the SCOTUS decision. It was not fishing expedition in that part of the opinion, that was about Article II burdens as I recall. The fishing expedition part was for ordinary people. That's what court said.
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Dunne is given a minute to wrap up.
We must not a apply a new heightened showing standard that was explicitly rejected by SCOTUS.
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We must not a apply a new heightened showing standard that was explicitly rejected by SCOTUS.
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The Judge thanks both sides for helpful discussion and answering court questions and for making submission in a timely matter.
Only action open is question concerning schedule.
He endorsed schedule and will look for submissions "in due course."
"Have a good day."
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Only action open is question concerning schedule.
He endorsed schedule and will look for submissions "in due course."
"Have a good day."
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What this means:
Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
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Trump has until July 27th (a week from Monday to file an amended complaint).
Presumably, Vance will then file a motion to dismiss.
And final briefs due by August 14th.
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