The same crowd defending Abrams when he retcons both 1-6, 8, and Poe Damerons entire backstory: https://twitter.com/DurgeDiggler/status/1263238821010956288

to clarify and be real for a moment, I'm fine with newer media adding context to what's been established (case in point, the prequels and how they add context to the OT) and sometimes that involves retcons

but the issue for me isn't "iT's NoT cAnOn" but rather, lack of... 1/

respect for previous stories and continuities, to the point of outright disregarding them entirely and essentially removing/diminishing the value of those pieces of media

you don't get to market these ancillary materials as canon, then throw them out when they get in the way 2/

without backlash. i mean, its disney, they literally can do whatever they want with the franchise now. but the whole past 5 years felt like an attempt to create a new, established timeline that wouldn't be beholden to previous stories. Hence "canon" vs legends 3/

and you need that kind of system for the sake of overall cohesion. does EVERY star wars story HAVE to reference previous works? obvs not. but DLFL marketed themselves heavily with the media campaigns meant to advertise their films and attractions. Journey to TFA/TLJ/TROS 4/

kinda felt like similar multimedia projects from legends, like clone wars (before the 3D animated show) and shadows of the empire (which predates me mostly)

a lot of interesting stories happen in those materials, but it feels like they had 1 philosophy the past 5 years 5/

-- focus on character stories, not so much on lore building or lasting impacts, in order to avoid whatever happens in the movies. And while great stories have come out of that, to me, it feels evident that they had no idea what they were doing with the films/overall arc 6/

otherwise, how do we explain Poe going from Leia's trusted agent, absolutely reverent of droids and basically a goody two-shoes in his comic pre-TLJ, to the hothead in TLJ, to a former drug peddler who rebelled against his war hero parents? 7/

that could work, the novel that comes out to justify this retcon could even be a meaningful story. I'm not against the concept so much as I am upset that there is no cohesion or desire to tell meaningful stories that build on each other 8/

and that's just with Poe. i haven't even brought up the nonsensical musical choices in TROS, the METHODS used to bring back Palpatine, the chosen one retcon* (which contradicts what Lucas intended), the limitation of the ST to take place within 53ish weeks, etc. 9/

for me its just, I have REASONS why I enjoy star wars and what I like about this, and TROS/the ST as a whole does away with almost all of it, stripping it down to just the overall SW aesthetic

so when I hear "you're reading too much into it, stop bashing the ST", I can't... 10/

help but wonder if there's even a point interacting with you. I 100% hate anyone who unjustly rags on and harasses you. Its toxic and unacceptable...but there's gotta be room for discussion beyond "hot take: TROS > AOTC" or the same old "prequel lovers are all r*tards" 11/

I just hate that toxic positivity has become the default reaction to both sequel bashers like the FM...and...actual star wars fans who have issues with TROS. Same shit even happened with TLJ. So much focus was on Luke**, but "aS a LaTiNo" for me it was also Poe (see prev.) 112

its wild how the only good conversation I've ever had with a sequel stan was thru battlefront 2, where he bashed the prequels, but by me merely clarifying PT misconceptions, explaining why I love them, and admitting what I disliked in them, led him to better appreciate the PT 13/

and me to an extent, just what ppl do get from the ST and how they connect it to previous lore and stories

frankly, it was a lot of the same reasons I tried to use to explain to myself how I could 'accept' TROS as canon

not to mention some cool concepts I hear from PT stans 14/

like wishing Dooku was more prominent, or that the separatists were mainly alien beings rising against the human-centric republic (which...is of course what legends and TCW highlight). It was fun, even if I had to sit through some obvious RLM propaganda 15/

idk, my point is just, I WANT to have discussions over star wars, and I hate how "all SW is good SW" doesn't do what it thinks it does, and doesn't care about its own hypocrisy, but I feel limited in how I can express this, due to how "camps" are drawn on this hellsite 16/16

*i'm fine with 'the force selecting champions to help balance it'. that's an concept explored in legends, and fits with the cyclical nature of this franchise

but the chosen one prophecy was fulfilled according to george. Anakin destroyed the sith. Destroyed 1/

not "disintegrated his body and ignored a sith cult that sidious always had as a backup plan so he could Dark Empire his was back into the final film with no set up and no Anakin to fulfill HIS prophecy"

Also, Kylo and her abandonment issues were Rey's conflicts, not sidious 2/

**I at first liked, then hated, then accepted how Luke evolved since ROTJ. I eventually felt that the overall "retcon" made enough sense, and made for an overall more interesting story in TLJ. I still have my hangups, but i can accept that

however TROS...kinda cheapens that 3/

cuz the fact that he can help Rey get a fully functional x-wing, proves he could have done it in TLJ, and just force-projected from his x-wing, let alone chosen to leave the planet whenever...which contradicts every TLJ material saying he went there to die so 4/

the light side could arise from a worthier source, and stop promoting jedi hubristic monopoly of the light side. TLJ did a better job (imo) doing the rebirth/renewal/redemption theme than TROS, which instead went for the aesthetic w/o context. it was heartbreaking to watch 5/5

*as someone who's cared about these stories and this universe for so long

inb4 someone says I've aged out: I adore a lot of the ancillary materials and now have renewed interest in legends stories I've never experienced. I just want good stories and I don't think JJ understands

what star wars is outside of the iconography and general aesthetics. they just wanted a safe reboot of the OT, without understanding why those movies still hold up

/end thread and post-thread