Meadows, they seem to have developed a mystique and are becoming apparently somewhat misunderstood.

Meadows are historically hay producing grasslands, the ideal time to cut them as a farmer is when the grass is most nutrient rich, which is when the grass is in flower.

After this grasses remove nutrients to roots and grass becomes more straw like. In the past farmers cutting grass by hand took a longer to cut hay so some would have been cut later, good hay fields were limited and very valuable, much was cut at best time if weather allowed.

This matters as regards biodiversity as the maximum removal of nutrient by cutting at this time promotes a lower fertility which as hay fields are naturally more fertile than other native grasslands (hence higher biomass production) is likely to be important in maintaining

plant biodiversity. Historically some dung may have been applied to hay fields, but dung was limited as lower stock numbers and lower over-wintering numbers made dung a valuable resource needed on arable.

It is easy to see a conflict in management, we want to cut late to allow flowers to seed, to allow insects to find resources yet we remove less fertility doing so. A trend exists to not graze the late summer growth with cattle, this aftermath grazing is important.

It opens up sward, breaks up a thatch of straw like grass left after bailing, reduces nutrient a bit, if beasts not treated with ivermectin much nutrient is recycled in dung rapidly broken down by beetles, flies, fungi.

If aftermath grazing does not happen it is wise to see if a litter thatch needs to be disturbed, wise to see if disturbance in sward akin to livestock feet is needed allowing a gap for plant colonisation. Late cut or early making hay has a big impact on insects.

It is a massive change, all standing vegetation removed in an event, eggs, pupa, lava, gone, vegetation structure gone, seeds gone. Leaving an uncut area is often recommended. Should we cut, remember if you do not remove cuttings you doom the grassland to nutrient

enrichment. This eutrophication will reduce plant species diversity, promote a few very capable competitive species which dominate in higher nutrient conditions, also promote invasive species such as creeping thistle.

On a farm hay is cut for one reason, winter food for livestock (fodder), why would you cut if you do not need hay. Long grass, flowers can grow and be grazed by cattle either using mob grazing or extensive low stock rate. This means no event occurs which damages insect population

Sward of all heights, flowers, seeds, vegetation structure, short areas barn owls can hunt field voles, starlings can feed in, long grass, dung, insects. This is very different to a farming system which grazes all grass low, better for grass roots and carbon fixing in soil..

Not easy to do, a big change of philosophy but some people are. A system which creates a patch work of grazed short and tall.

We can create that with cutting patches, raking off cuttings, allowing regrowth, a mosaic can be made of cut, not cut, growing.

This may be difficult to do on a big site, cost time makes it more feasible to bring in a contractor, cut, bail, livestock may be unavailable that may be the only option. Just remember your late cut hay will not be great, but sometimes pony owners like small bale less rich hay.

I worked on a site in which we used a big Kubota mower, picked up grass as it cut, very capable machine, could cope with banks and dips. Rotational cutting over summer and uncut sections worked well, duke of burgundy fritillary thrived.

My recommendation, if you create your own meadow, consider a few small cut areas, raked off during summer, with areas uncut for winter. You will nutrient strip, leave habitat over winter, increase diversity, avoid the big cut which impacts insects. Raking can open sward thatch.

If you manage a site with no livestock which is not a traditional hay meadow with a clear historic management pattern maybe move away if you can from a hay cut if you do not need hay, or make hay on part of site if cutting piles would be too huge.Rotational cutting may be best?

@Haggewoods after our recent conversation I thought this might be useful. @whiterosegreen @BrianE_Cambs please comment if you have time.

If you want to make hay you must pull ragwort, not having a big ragwort population in a grassland is a plus hay making, sward not disturbed is important, @crawley_mick says seed does not matter, he is a real expert, traditionally we pulled before seeding. I think lower nutrient

means it does not become dense tall dominant invasive, but that may just be my impression

I did after vast amounts of pulling become quite good at avoiding that effort by limiting its population, a real incentive