The commandment to honor one's father & mother (or parents of whatever gender, presumably) in the 10 Commandments has been used many times as a clobber verse--as a way of demanding obedience no matter what.

So! What is the commandment, and what are its limits?

1/x Thread

As always, bringing the Jewish perspective, Jewish texts, here. As is the way of traditional Jewish texts, they so often live in this world of male perspective, but let's just go with it, assume today that any human of any gender might be relevant.

This is the Tosefta, an oral tradition compiled in the late 2nd c.

What exactly are the obligations of the son towards the father? Giving food and drink, dressing and covering/sheltering, escorting in and out, and washing his face, feet, and hands. (Tosefta Kidushin 1:11)

Already, we see a narrowing of the concept. "Honor" could be a million things.But here, they're saying, make sure this person's basic needs are cared for (if this person can't care for themselves, I think.) Concrete. Material. Not emotional. Not about feelings or any situation.

Then, the Talmud.

"What is “revering” (Lev 19:3) & what is “honoring” (Ex 20:12)? “Revering”: one may not stand in his father’s place, one may not sit in his place, one may not contradict his father’s words, and he may not offer an opinion in a debate contrary to his father’s+

“Honoring”: one must give him food and drink, one must dress him and cover/shelter him, and one must escort him in and out. (Talmud Kidushin 31b-32a)

So. No physically taking over his usual place in the synagogue/study hall, and no taking the other guy's side in a public +

debate, which does not mean you can't ever disagree (as I read it), just that (generally speaking) one shouldn't go out of their way to contradict them publicly. And then, honoring, follows the Tosefta, material and concrete again.

But wait! So in Leviticus 19:3 we've got "You shall each revere his mother and his father, and keep My Shabbat." The Talmud (Bava Metzia 32a) reads this to mean that if a parent asks a child to refrain from performing a mitzvah, the child need not heed that command.

Think about this for a second. This doesn't just mean if your parent tells you to [insert list of ritual observance mitzvot here], you shouldn't listen, but also--the interpersonal mitzvot. Preserving life and health and safety, for example. Caring for one's fellow human.

I would extend this even to say that Deuteronomy 4:9 and 4:15 would apply: “Guard yourself and guard your soul very much" & “You shall guard yourselves very well."

If what a parent asks of you will cause you harm, you are not obligated to listen to them.

(Come out! Be who you are! Tell the truth! Don't hold secrets that are toxic or actively harmful to you and others! This is not what God wants.)

OK, Jewish law. The Tur is an important 14th c. legal decisor.

"Rabenu Yitzchak interpreted the ruling in light of the law that children don’t have to honor their parents at the children’s expense. +

He uses the example of a father trying to throw away the son's wallet--the son can stop him, or even stop his father from throwing his own wallet away if it would impact his inheritance--but if it's too late, if the father threw away the wallet already... +

"the son may not rebuke him because he can’t undo what’s in the past. The son’s silence, therefore, is a form of honor; the son is forbidden to rebuke his father. He is permitted,
however, to sue the father in court to recover his money." (Tur, Yoreh Deah 240)

So, like, you don't have to listen to your parent if it will hurt you. You can rebuke your parent if they'll make a choice of their own that will impact you. And if they already made that decision, you shouldn't rebuke them--look! honoring!--BUT YOU CAN SUE THEM.

"Honor thy father and mother" doesn't demand that you give up your legal rights.

Also it doesn't extend to letting your parents edit your life choices. Shulchan Aruch, major 16th. c law code:

"If a father commanded his son not to talk with someone and not to forgive him until a specific date, and the son wants to restore the friendship immediately+

if it weren’t for his father’s edict, he need not listen to his edict. If a student wants to study Torah in a different city where he is confident he will succeed in his studies due to a particular teacher there, and his father protests.--the son need not listen to his father+

Rama (Ashkenazi gloss): If the father protests the son’s decision to marry a particular woman that the son has chosen, the son need not listen to the father." (Shulchan Aruch. Yoreh Deah 240:16)

Lastly I'll note Rabbi Joseph Telushkin, a contemporary Orthodox writer, observes that the commandment to honor one's parents doesn't include love. We're commanded to love our neighbors, and the non-citizen in our midst, but not our parents. Just to honor them.

And, as Telushkin puts it, "in instances of parents who have physically or sexually abused their children, I believe that children do not owe the parents respect or anything else for that matter."

I would also extend that to emotional & other kinds of abuse as well.

It's a beautiful commandment, imho, but it has major limits. If your parent has harmed you or others, caring for yourself, setting boundaries, speaking truth & everything else is not in tension with these verses. Guard yourselves. Guard others. God wants us all safe & whole.

Hey, based on this thread some people asked me to address this verse in Deuteronomy, so I did: https://twitter.com/TheRaDR/status/1280247990511419393