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Why Michael Jordan is my GOAT (specifically over Lebron)
( A Thread ↓ )
( A Thread ↓ )
This will be organized in parts.
DISCLAIMER:
This thread will NOT be slandering Lebron or trying to undermine his or others' greatness. Jordan is great enough to the point where I, nor anyone else, should have to disparage another player's legacy to uplift him.
DISCLAIMER:
This thread will NOT be slandering Lebron or trying to undermine his or others' greatness. Jordan is great enough to the point where I, nor anyone else, should have to disparage another player's legacy to uplift him.
1. MJ's Accolades
6x Champ
6x Finals MVP - Most (No One Else More than 3)
6-0 Finals Record
5x MVP
DPOY
14x All-Star
11x All-NBA
10x All-NBA 1st Team
9x All-Defensive (All 1st Team) - t-Most
10x Scoring Champion - Most
8 30 PPG Seasons - Most
Retired Playoff Leading Scorer
6x Champ
6x Finals MVP - Most (No One Else More than 3)
6-0 Finals Record
5x MVP
DPOY
14x All-Star
11x All-NBA
10x All-NBA 1st Team
9x All-Defensive (All 1st Team) - t-Most
10x Scoring Champion - Most
8 30 PPG Seasons - Most
Retired Playoff Leading Scorer
Lebron's Accolades
3x Champ
3x Finals MVP
3-6 Finals Record
4x MVP
16x All-Star
16x All-NBA (Counting This Year)
13x All-NBA First Team - Most
6x All-Defensive Team
2x DPOY Runner Up
Scoring Champ
Playoff Leading Scorer
Potential for NBA Leading Scorer
3x Champ
3x Finals MVP
3-6 Finals Record
4x MVP
16x All-Star
16x All-NBA (Counting This Year)
13x All-NBA First Team - Most
6x All-Defensive Team
2x DPOY Runner Up
Scoring Champ
Playoff Leading Scorer
Potential for NBA Leading Scorer
Keep In Mind Jordan has less years played with more accomplished.
Jordan has 3 more rings + fmvps, More MVPs, a DPOY, More All-Defensive Teams, and more playoff success.
Jordan has 3 more rings + fmvps, More MVPs, a DPOY, More All-Defensive Teams, and more playoff success.
2. Era Dominance
There was a time where a full season of MJ guaranteed a championship, much like there was time a full season of Lebron meant a finals run.
MJ completely dominated and stiff armed other legends in his time period. Especially head to head. Throughout the 90s, no—
There was a time where a full season of MJ guaranteed a championship, much like there was time a full season of Lebron meant a finals run.
MJ completely dominated and stiff armed other legends in his time period. Especially head to head. Throughout the 90s, no—
-team or player won more than one playoff series against MJ, that's insane.
3. Records
Not only does MJ have the highest career ppg ever, he also has the highest single season ppg of the modern era.
He is;
The only player to ever average 30 ppg 8 rpg 8 apg while shooting atleast 60% TS%
1 of 3 players to average 30 ppg and make an All-Defensive team
Not only does MJ have the highest career ppg ever, he also has the highest single season ppg of the modern era.
He is;
The only player to ever average 30 ppg 8 rpg 8 apg while shooting atleast 60% TS%
1 of 3 players to average 30 ppg and make an All-Defensive team
He ranks;
#1 in Single Season PER
#1 in Career PER
#1 in Career BPM
3 of the top 5 highest single season BPM
#2 in Career VORP
Highest Average VORP
6 of the top 10 highest single season VORP
#1 in Career Playoff PPG
#1 in Career Playoff PER
#2 in Career Playoff WS
+++
#1 in Single Season PER
#1 in Career PER
#1 in Career BPM
3 of the top 5 highest single season BPM
#2 in Career VORP
Highest Average VORP
6 of the top 10 highest single season VORP
#1 in Career Playoff PPG
#1 in Career Playoff PER
#2 in Career Playoff WS
+++
#2 in Career Playoff OWS
#7 in Career Playoff DWS
#1 in Career Playoff BPM
#1 in Career Playoff OBPM
#2 in Career Playoff VORP
#1 in Finals PPG in Modern Era
Keep In Mind he ended his career at #1 in every category he is #2 in. Only recently has Lebron usurped him bc he's —
#7 in Career Playoff DWS
#1 in Career Playoff BPM
#1 in Career Playoff OBPM
#2 in Career Playoff VORP
#1 in Finals PPG in Modern Era
Keep In Mind he ended his career at #1 in every category he is #2 in. Only recently has Lebron usurped him bc he's —
-played more seasons and thus has been in the playoffs more.
He is 1 of 2 players (Olajuwon) to win MVP & DPOY in the same season.
He is 1 of 2 players (Olajuwon) to win MVP & DPOY in the same season.
4. Playoff Dominance + Best Playoff & Finals Player Ever
In my opinion, Jordan had tougher competition because the talent (as far as superstars go) was alot more spread out in the league, but Lebron faced the overall best teams in the Finals. Despite an otherwise weak East.
In my opinion, Jordan had tougher competition because the talent (as far as superstars go) was alot more spread out in the league, but Lebron faced the overall best teams in the Finals. Despite an otherwise weak East.
It is worth noting that the 13' and 14' Spurs -- moreso 14' are some of the best teams ever/ in the league but didn't have a superstar per say.
And while he didn't beat them at full strength, the 16' Warriors were obviously one of the best teams ever. As well, as 17' and 18'—
And while he didn't beat them at full strength, the 16' Warriors were obviously one of the best teams ever. As well, as 17' and 18'—
-although neither of his teams even put up a fight in those years, he was dominant statistically, and that accounts for something.
Jordan, however, had a much less top heavy league and Eastern Conference. This is why he faced and beat more 60 and 50 win teams before the finals.
Jordan, however, had a much less top heavy league and Eastern Conference. This is why he faced and beat more 60 and 50 win teams before the finals.
It should be noted that while Lebron can do more with less (as far as getting a team to the finals), he did it in a relatively weak conference. I value dominance in the finals more than I value dominance getting to it. Especially considering Lebron's weaker competition.
Superstars Lebron faced in the playoffs between his first and last finals appearances (07'-18');
(F) Kevin Durant - 1-2
(F) Tim Duncan* - 0-1
(F) Dirk Nowitzki - 0-1
(F) Stephen Curry - 1-3
Derrick Rose - 1-0
Dwight Howard - 0-1
Carmelo Anthony - 1-0
Big 3 Celtics - 2-2
(F) Kevin Durant - 1-2
(F) Tim Duncan* - 0-1
(F) Dirk Nowitzki - 0-1
(F) Stephen Curry - 1-3
Derrick Rose - 1-0
Dwight Howard - 0-1
Carmelo Anthony - 1-0
Big 3 Celtics - 2-2
Superstars MJ faced between his first and last finals (91'-98');
Patrick Ewing - 4-0
Charles Barkley - 2-0
Isiah Thomas* - 1-0
Magic Johnson - 1-0
Clyde Drexler - 1-0
Dominique Wilkins 1-0
Shaq O'Neal 1-1
Alonzo Mourning 3-0
Gary Payton 1-0
Karl Malone 2-0
Reggie Miller 1-0
Patrick Ewing - 4-0
Charles Barkley - 2-0
Isiah Thomas* - 1-0
Magic Johnson - 1-0
Clyde Drexler - 1-0
Dominique Wilkins 1-0
Shaq O'Neal 1-1
Alonzo Mourning 3-0
Gary Payton 1-0
Karl Malone 2-0
Reggie Miller 1-0
My definition of superstar: Perennial MVP candidate / calibur player capable and/or talented enough to be one of the best players on a championship calibur team, and/or lead a team to success.
I do not consider Derozan, Isaiah Thomas, Mark Price, or Paul George superstars.
I do not consider Derozan, Isaiah Thomas, Mark Price, or Paul George superstars.
Pretty damn impressive for both players nonetheless.
Lebron is;
13-10 (56.5%) vs. 50+ Win Teams (60 win teams included)
3-5 (37.5%) vs. 60+ Win Teams
For reference;
Jordan is;
20-7 (74.1%) vs. 50+ win teams
7-2 (77.7%) vs. 60+ win teams
Lebron is;
13-10 (56.5%) vs. 50+ Win Teams (60 win teams included)
3-5 (37.5%) vs. 60+ Win Teams
For reference;
Jordan is;
20-7 (74.1%) vs. 50+ win teams
7-2 (77.7%) vs. 60+ win teams
End Of Thread
Also before you 1-9 mfs show up, here. https://twitter.com/ZoneDefenses/status/1269642186783686657?s=19
Also before you 1-9 mfs show up, here. https://twitter.com/ZoneDefenses/status/1269642186783686657?s=19
