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Spent a lot of time thinking about the toxic bro culture of stand up and the silence of cowardly, self centered comics who let it happen. There are female comics who still open for Louie CK, on the down low even. This will be a long, rambling thread, I apologize in advance
I& #39;ve been doing stand up for almost 20 years, and was at shows and around them for a decade before that (and for a decade almost I was in bands or a part of a local music scene, which was also overwhelmingly male.) A few things that this boils down to.
Insecurity:
People drawn to the arts, especially stand up comedy, are damaged. Almost universally. Many of them use it as a way to re-invent themselves in an image under their control. They can regain sense of self, and some power. Some people take that as a way to be an ass
People drawn to the arts, especially stand up comedy, are damaged. Almost universally. Many of them use it as a way to re-invent themselves in an image under their control. They can regain sense of self, and some power. Some people take that as a way to be an ass
you have social outcasts, or dorks, etc, who are there because that& #39;s who they are, it& #39;s not their affected identity. Then you have nerds who are angry about it, they WANT to be the bully, they WANT to be tough guys and bros, those are the guys who create that reality for them
Stand Up, unlike any other art I& #39;ve been a part of, is ALL about control. You control your persona, you& #39;re a solo act. You control an audience. Etc. Often people who grew up in chaos are drawn to it. When a bad person enters this the control goes further, into their personal life
I also see so many people who make stand up their ENTIRE personal life, their entire social circle and social capital and their entire persona. This is why they are absolutely terrified of rocking the boat and why they can compartmentalize other people& #39;s behavior.
It& #39;s why they don& #39;t recognize that somebody getting a good opportunity could be good for them and isn& #39;t at their expense and it& #39;s how they can justify NOT calling out predators and dickheads. They didn& #39;t do it personally, and it& #39;s not "their business".
Delusion:
I& #39;ve never met a group of people more focused on destination vs journey than comedians. The funny part is, there is no more destination. It& #39;s ALL journey now. But they still operate under a false sense of "making it". This is important here.
I& #39;ve never met a group of people more focused on destination vs journey than comedians. The funny part is, there is no more destination. It& #39;s ALL journey now. But they still operate under a false sense of "making it". This is important here.
with a pathological focus on this destination comics often justify ANYTHING in order to get to somewhere (even if that somewhere is a pipe dream fantasy). This is one of the reasons they don& #39;t want to "burn a bridge" with somebody they view as a success who can "help" them
The insecurity features in here again as well. Many people drawn to stand up have been low on the social scale. They are DESPERATE for ANY advantage or leg up, which often draws them to misogyny and racism, to feel even the smallest amount superior.
There& #39;s another factor here that needs addressing. MANY people in stand up are on the spectrum, either officially or not. They are awful with social cues and don& #39;t know how to properly interact with people. The vast majority of these people are not predators or bad.
but because people are often black and white, these people get lumped in with true predators and dickheads. Being rude, or curt, or maybe awkward is different than people who are active pricks and chest beating over compensators.
anyway, back to assholes. Because these dicks can& #39;t understand that somebody else getting something isn& #39;t at your expense they also believe the opposite is true. If they can stomp somebody else down, or make others "weaker" it helps them and makes them "stronger". This is garbage
Justification:
Here are some things I hear, "If I don& #39;t do it some other comic will", as if they are so good, they are doing the world a service by being on some assholes podcast, or opening for them. At least a "good guy" is doing it. Again, a sad justification.
Here are some things I hear, "If I don& #39;t do it some other comic will", as if they are so good, they are doing the world a service by being on some assholes podcast, or opening for them. At least a "good guy" is doing it. Again, a sad justification.
Justification:
PC/Edgy/Offensive:
"You can& #39;t handle it" - this is the way lazy people justify their short cuts to getting reactions. They also confuse a reaction with being good at something. They don& #39;t see a difference between a laugh and a groan. This goes back to control.
PC/Edgy/Offensive:
"You can& #39;t handle it" - this is the way lazy people justify their short cuts to getting reactions. They also confuse a reaction with being good at something. They don& #39;t see a difference between a laugh and a groan. This goes back to control.
Life Experience:
We can& #39;t undervalue the incredible lack of life experience and the sheltered social circles a lot of these people are in. No real job, no having to "pass" in polite society. They essentially become voluntary carnies and it becomes a feedback loop.
We can& #39;t undervalue the incredible lack of life experience and the sheltered social circles a lot of these people are in. No real job, no having to "pass" in polite society. They essentially become voluntary carnies and it becomes a feedback loop.
Because of that they are terrified of having to leave the tribe or being thrown out of the circle and having to have to be a "real" person and interact with other people like a normal fucking human being. So they justify and hang on to assholes out of pure desperation and fear.
Regarding these dicks who seek out and groom teenagers, which is absolutely revolting, they are emotionally/sexually a teenager themselves. Just look at their act. Their reinvented persona is trying to rewrite their own youth. It& #39;s sad, and it& #39;s wrong.
Jerry Seinfeld, a HUGE success, dated a 17 year old girl when he was 39 fucking years old. That& #39;s an emotional cripple who is stuck in High School when it comes to their romantic maturity and ability to have complex adult interactions.
Some people are also just assholes and bad people. They somehow manage to make money and so industry and their hanger ons never tell them no. Years of never hearing no re-enforces their fantasy image of themselves.
THAT is key because that& #39;s a major reason why people in their social circle or scene need to call them out. They need to know that other people know they are wrong, and that we see them for who they are. I do this, and it& #39;s frustrating, because it seems like it doesn& #39;t "take"
the only consequences truly bad people understand are physical or financial pain. In my younger days I went for the former. I punched a lot of guys in the face, and let them know something wasn& #39;t ok. That worked a bit, they were at least less open about things, at least around me
as an adult who& #39;s knees and ankles are bad from fights, and who gets shoulder pain from punching people in my teens, financial pain is the route. They don& #39;t make money they don& #39;t get insulated and protected.
IF club owners are bad people (and oh SO many are) they go out of business if comics stop working with them. The "if I don& #39;t somebody else will" only works until a venue can only book AWFUL comics and audiences stop showing up. Stop giving them your art and endorsement.
I& #39;ll wrap up because I& #39;m rambling but here& #39;s what I& #39;m realizing, COVID-19 is awful. It is going to KILL many, many business. That& #39;s inevitable and there& #39;s nothing we can do about that. HOWEVER, it& #39;s also an opportunity. Live comedy is and should be dead for the foreseeable future
Venues will close, many of them should stay closed. "BIg" comics won& #39;t have their audience and their huge touring schedules. This is a good thing. If they miss one or two pop culture fan cycles, they are back at zero. This is a good thing. This is the cleansing fire.
What rises in the fertile soil of the ashes is up to us. Do we try to recreate the past, do we prop up the old broken Gods because they are familiar? No. This the chance to do things better. NOBODY will be making anyone money, which means the power is available.
THIS is a chance for us all to reward the talented, the innovative and new. Because somebody was on a beloved radio show 20 years ago is no longer of value. We can reward the hilarious women for example who have been slogging along, making great stuff and NOT assaulting anyone
