Yes, with TLOU2 discussions up and about maybe we should think about how another game tries to make you feel guilty about making a decision you didn't want to make. Except the two games handle that stuff differently. Yes, a thread. Also SPOILER ALERT for both SO:TL and TLOU2 https://twitter.com/Lord_Mandalore/status/1274821754238754816

TLOU2's dog killing scene is inconsequential to the story. If Ellie had not killed the dog, the story would have kept on moving without any real change. The reveal of a woman you kill being pregnant is just as pointless to me.

In contrast, without the White Phosphorus scene in Spec Ops, the rest of the game would not have happened. If you were paying attention, that's the point where Walker starts to hunt down Konrad. The WP scene IS the game.

The other "false choice" scene in Spec Ops happens when Konrad asks you to kill one of two people. You'll probably notice several 33rd soldiers aiming as well. You can shoot one of the two people, after which the 33rd soldiers will let you go.

Or you can shoot at the 33rd, which results in both people getting shot by the 33rd soldiers.

The game is filled with inconsequential choices and I just told you the worst offender in Spec Ops. It doesn't matter though because almost everything in Spec Ops is a lie.

I know all 3 of you who saw this thread thought I would keep bitching about the "you're bad about this action we forced you to perform" thing but my main problem is with TLoU2's delivery of its message. I'll still be comparing it to Spec Ops because both games involve revenge.

In TLoU2, Joel and Ellie have a father and daughter relationship. Abby kills Joel, Ellie hunts down Abby, killing hundreds of people in the process, and just as she's going to kill Abby she lets her go because revenge is bad.

I'm saying Ellie comes to realise this at the end but the game shoves this message to your face so many times that I am not sure how Ellie hasn't realised it yet.

In Spec Ops, you try to evac Konrad and the 33rd, find out the 33rd have gone rogue, hunt down Konrad, dooming the citizens of Dubai in the process, and as he is about to kill Konrad he finds out that he's already been dead.

I say WE find out because the player and Walker learns this at the same time. How long has he been dead, we don't know. All we learn is, we never spoke to Konrad. Oh yeah, those two guys I talked about? They were dead too.

The difference between the two games is that Ellie stops going on her path of revenge without any real justification. She fights Abby to the death and then suddenly lets her go and there's no reason for Ellie to do so.

In contrast, Walker's path of "revenge" literally hits a titanium wall at the end. He wants to kill Konrad, but he can't do it because Konrad is already dead. I am certain Walker would've killed Konrad if he was alive, especially after losing both of his squad members.

Yeah, I wanna talk about Joel's death and compare it to Lugo's and Adams'. Yes, Joel's character has been shaped over the course of the first game, but Lugo and Adams are alive until the final chapters of Spec Ops so I'd say all three are important characters.

At the end of TLOU, Joel kills some scientists so that Ellie may live. Abby is the daughter of one of the scientists. Years later Joel, unaware of this, helps Abby out. Once Abby learns of Joel, he is subdued and then executed with a golf club.

For a character as significant as Joel, he should've had a more impactful death. But when I watched the scene, I felt like Joel was thrown aside. It wasn't as confusing as Adams' death was, since Abby had her revenge by killing Joel, but it's still bad.

I say Adams' death was confusing because he gets killed by RPG's fired by the 33rd but then the 33rd soldiers at Konrad's tower turn out to be no more than Walker's illusions so I'm left to assume that there was no 33rd near Konrad's palace. If that's the case, how did Adams die?

Oh yeah, I almost forgot about how Lugo dies. Well he gets lynched by the citizens after the last of their water supply is destroyed.

Tell me which of the deaths was more impactful. For me it was Lugo>Adams>Joel.

I have no idea why TLOU2's story turned out to be so horrible. Maybe Neil Druckmann isn't as good as we thought he was, maybe Neil tried a different approach that failed horribly. Either way, TLOU2 has the worst story I have seen in a long time.

(End of Thread)