While we're on the topic of podcast ownership, the #FreeAnotherRound conversation makes me think of this fun fact: @eeddings and I own not one single percent of The Nod podcast or brand. Spotify does!

Let’s do a thread!

We started our time @Gimletmedia on other shows. Ppl asked why they didn't pick up @ForColoredNerds. We pitched them a reported version of FCN, aiming for a co-ownership deal like another Gimlet pod by two friends. Gimlet rejected our pitch, saying there was no audience for it.

With the help of our colleagues, we piloted and pitched what became The Nod. Gimlet loved it. But now this show that still led with our voices, with the same perspective and relative structure, was a NEW idea that Gimlet now owned 100%. Let’s talk about why.

Networks and publishers like @Gimletmedia / @SpotifyUSA and @BuzzFeed want to own ALL of a show's IP from the jump. If your platform isn't big enough to push back on that, tough luck. Ours wasn’t. We took the deal. When Spotify bought Gimlet last year, The Nod became theirs.

Even as we host a visual version of The Nod, we have to ask permission to post to The Nod’s podcast feed, which holds 100+ episodes that we poured everything into. They comply, but that we even have to ask is a reminder of just how wild the imbalance of power in our industry is.

That show bears our faces. It's about the unique lens through which Eric and I see the world. It's critically acclaimed, beloved, and more relevant than ever. It’s derivative of a show we created before we’d even heard of Gimlet. Do we not deserve to own even a fraction of it?

I want to make clear that this isn't an aberration. This is the industry model. Frankly, it’s a big reason why many podcast company staff pages and show rosters look as white as they do.

Things often work as they are designed to.

I have no idea what talking about this will cost us. We still host a show we love bearing The Nod name. But it's important that people, especially Black folks, who are interested in joining or staying in this industry know what we experienced, or things will never, ever change.