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So I recently watched Avatar: TLA and while I finally got to experience the pretty great Zuko arc, I take issue with it being held up as the best redemption arcs in western media when its not even the best redemption arc in ATLA.
So here& #39;s a thread on Iroh.
Let& #39;s get into it.
So here& #39;s a thread on Iroh.
Let& #39;s get into it.
Zuko& #39;s arc is really strong in setting up his internal conflict, demonstrating the harm he causes to others and specifically to Team Avatar, and showing us the impact that has on his relationships that his actions have to overcome. S3 dedicates a lot of time to show us how he...
puts in the work to redeem himself and rebuild trust for each member of the gang. However, the arc is ultimately centred around Zuko, specifically on his feelings as he& #39;s getting forgiveness from the others. He needs explicit external absolution to move on.
This is important.
This is important.
Iroh& #39;s arc on the other hand, is opposite in a lot of ways. We never get shown/told Iroh& #39;s crimes or anything he& #39;s done besides lay siege on Ba Sing Se. Being the son/ brother of fire lord, he is best case complicit in the colonial violence, and being a general, he actively...
perpetuated it for some time. Other than that, he& #39;s also complicit in the destruction Zuko causes, because even if he does not join most of the fights he doesn& #39;t stop the pursuit of Aang, or the fire spreading and causing harm in S1. But its never explicitly stated as an issue.
So here& #39;s the first big thing:
To accept that Iroh needs redemption, we have to accept that partaking in imperial violence and colonialism, and complicitness in it, is wrong.
This might seem like a simple statement but tbh the show (and wypipo) don& #39;t always seem to get that.
To accept that Iroh needs redemption, we have to accept that partaking in imperial violence and colonialism, and complicitness in it, is wrong.
This might seem like a simple statement but tbh the show (and wypipo) don& #39;t always seem to get that.
Similarly, for the most part, Iroh is immediately identified as a war criminal by the Earth Nation; he can& #39;t act directly to the benefit of the people he& #39;s harmed, and when he& #39;s given an opportunity to do so at the end of S3, he takes it. However, until then...
he instead dedicates his efforts to better himself. He tries to live his life without causing more harm, and strives to be a better person and guide someone else (Zuko) to help him avoid further perpetuating harm. And, when the cards are down and the spirits are threatened, he...
proves that he& #39;s not simply talk. He stands up to the fire nation and is willing to put his own life and resources on the line to do the right thing. And he does it again and again, in big and small ways. And, even when he does help free Ba Sing Se from fire nation occupation...
he does not ask anyone for forgiveness or redemption. He does it becacuse its the right way to wrong a past harm.
This arc is the perfect model for what real life "redemption" arcs can and should look like. It is, fundamentally, a growth arc, focused on doing better.
This arc is the perfect model for what real life "redemption" arcs can and should look like. It is, fundamentally, a growth arc, focused on doing better.
So why then is Zuko& #39;s arc constantly seen as stronger? Well, there are two reasons.
First, we go back to the reality I mentioned before, which is I don& #39;t think the show, and a lot of folks watching, realized that Iroh& #39;s arc was a "redemption" arc. When they did, we get the...
First, we go back to the reality I mentioned before, which is I don& #39;t think the show, and a lot of folks watching, realized that Iroh& #39;s arc was a "redemption" arc. When they did, we get the...
bit of retaking Ba Sing Se in an attempt to show Iroh being "direct" in his redemption (which I think is great in theory but has some issues in execution).
It is because of this that I actually think Iroh& #39;s redemptive arc is so strong; if it were written intentionally...
It is because of this that I actually think Iroh& #39;s redemptive arc is so strong; if it were written intentionally...
It would be different. And that leads to the second factor:
Most of us can’t conceive redemption/ growth without explicit forgiveness/ absolution.
Whether personally, culturally, societally, etc, we are conditioned to believe redemption ends with forgiveness from the harmed.
Most of us can’t conceive redemption/ growth without explicit forgiveness/ absolution.
Whether personally, culturally, societally, etc, we are conditioned to believe redemption ends with forgiveness from the harmed.
However:
Victims of harm are never required to forgive the perpetrator or anyone complicit in it. Forgiveness is a personal thing determined by each individual victim and how they choose to process the harm on a case by case basis. Redemption should not be predicated on it.
Victims of harm are never required to forgive the perpetrator or anyone complicit in it. Forgiveness is a personal thing determined by each individual victim and how they choose to process the harm on a case by case basis. Redemption should not be predicated on it.
That& #39;s why Iroh& #39;s arc is the strongest to me. It& #39;s not a redemption arc in the traditional sense, where it is focused on that explicit absolution; its a growth arc, where Iroh acknowledges his past harm and acts in a way to do better next time. And he keeps growing.
It& #39;s also why I think Iroh& #39;s arc is a better model for us as an audience. When we hurt people, we should strive to be Iroh, not Zuko; acknowledge and learn from your mistakes, grow to be a better person, and if an opportunity is offered to fix the harm caused, take it.
(With the caveat that the victims of harm know what they need most and simply trying to help someone you& #39;ve hurt who doesn& #39;t want you there or doing it in a way that they didn& #39;t ask for will almost certainly cause more harm and true growth means knowing you can& #39;t always help).
TL;DR
Zuko& #39;s arc is talked about more because its the one the show draws attention to, and the one we& #39;re meant to focus on as he seeks absolution. It& #39;s that simple fact which highlights why it& #39;s weaker than Iroh& #39;s arc, but also leaves Iroh& #39;s forgotten more often than not.
Zuko& #39;s arc is talked about more because its the one the show draws attention to, and the one we& #39;re meant to focus on as he seeks absolution. It& #39;s that simple fact which highlights why it& #39;s weaker than Iroh& #39;s arc, but also leaves Iroh& #39;s forgotten more often than not.
I want to give a shoutout to the wonderful @RourkeBywater, who talked with me through most of my ATLA watchthrough reactions as well as the ideas I had with this specific thread, and helped clarify a ton of them. Many of these ideas are in this form thanks to her help.
Give her a follow and support if you want to see the feed of one of the most insightful people I know. She& #39;s not doing much tabletop stuff anymore, but whatever she& #39;s working on next will be absolutely amazing, and I know there& #39;s a few things in the works... 
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