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It‘s an insult to compare Lionel Messi with any other footballer.
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The debate ends herehttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
The debate ends here
The debate ends herehttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">" title="It‘s an insult to compare Lionel Messi with any other footballer.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🐐" title="Goat" aria-label="Emoji: Goat">The debate ends herehttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">" class="img-responsive" style="max-width:100%;"/>
-Now, the problem with this debate, is that too many people prefer a player (due to team bias or preferring their personality), and then try to work back from this conclusion, cherry picking numbers to suit their preference.
-I’m going to be doing the opposite.
-I’m going to be doing the opposite.
-I’ll be looking at the widest range of numbers, using a mixture of modern and simple metrics, to show who’s the better player.
-And if you read the thread, you simply can’t argue that Cristiano Ronaldo is a better footballer than Lionel Messi.
-Let’s get started.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-And if you read the thread, you simply can’t argue that Cristiano Ronaldo is a better footballer than Lionel Messi.
-Let’s get started.
-First, lets look at some raw basic attacking numbers for their entire career.
-I’ll be looking at everything with a “minutes per” measure, for the most accurate numbers.
-I’ll be looking at everything with a “minutes per” measure, for the most accurate numbers.
-Whole career numbers:
Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919
-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0
-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3
-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4
Messi:
-Mins played: 69,919
-Goals: 699
-Mins per goal: 100.0
-Assists: 309
-Mins per assist: 226.3
-G+A: 1,008
-Mins per G+A: 69.4
CR7:
-Mins played: 81,191
-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8
-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9
-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6
-Mins played: 81,191
-Goals: 726
-Mins per goal: 111.8
-Assists: 257
-Mins per assist: 315.9
-G+A: 983
-Mins per G+A: 82.6
-As we can see, over their whole career, Messi is the more prolific scorer and assister, but let me put those numbers into perspective, to show you how big of a difference the numbers are.
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-Lionel Messi could play 8000 minutes of football (88 full games), and score ZERO (0) goals, and still have a better goal per game ratio than CR7 currently has.
-That’s 1 and a half seasons.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤯" title="Exploding head" aria-label="Emoji: Exploding head">
-That’s 1 and a half seasons.
-Lionel Messi could play 27,500 minutes of football (305 full games), and get ZERO (0) assists, and still have a better assist per game ratio than CR7 currently has.
-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤯" title="Exploding head" aria-label="Emoji: Exploding head">
-That’s basically 6 seasons worth of games.
-Now, those numbers would be enough to show the majority of people who the more effective attacker is between the 2, yet people have a plethora of excuse based arguments in CR7’s favour.
-We’ll have a look at some of those, and I’ll also go into more detail on HOW good Messi is.
-We’ll have a look at some of those, and I’ll also go into more detail on HOW good Messi is.
-1 argument, is “Ronaldo is better on international level”.
-Now, even if that was true, that wouldn’t then mean he is a better player, as Messi has still performed better when looking at club+country.
-But lets have a look at them on the international level.
-Now, even if that was true, that wouldn’t then mean he is a better player, as Messi has still performed better when looking at club+country.
-But lets have a look at them on the international level.
-National team numbers:
Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1
CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22
Messi
-Mins per goal: 163.5
-Mins per assists: 245.3
-Mins per G/A: 98.1
CR7
-Mins per goal: 131.4
-Mins per assists: 315.9
-Mins per G/A: 95.22
-As we can see, CR7 has the better goal ratio, and Messi maintains the better assist ratio, and Ronaldo just about has the better G/A ratio, but nowhere near as big of a difference as when looking at whole career.
-But international football has a catch.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-But international football has a catch.
-Ronaldo fans will quickly jump to say that CR7 scores less of his goals in friendly games, which is true, he scores just 17% of national goals in friendlies, whilst Messi scores 49% in friendlies.
-However, South American and European nations are very different.
-However, South American and European nations are very different.
-There are far more tiny nations in Europe, and facing Lithuania in a Euro qualifier, is by no means harder than facing Brazil in a friendly.
-We can see the difference when looking at quality of opposition the goals have come against.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-We can see the difference when looking at quality of opposition the goals have come against.
-% of international goals that are against a top 50 FIFA ranked nation:
Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%
-A big difference.
Messi: 82%
Ronaldo: 29%
-A big difference.
-We can also look at their numbers from Major International tournaments only:
Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5
Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9
Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 111.5
Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 118.9
-However, goals and assists are by no means the only metrics to judge attackers on, when looking at more stats and advanced metrics (which I’ll do shortly), the numbers are more and more in Messi’s favour.
-Whoscored.com do statistically based player ratings each game, using 100s of different metrics, which can always be a useful way to judge a players overall performance.
-Here are their average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com ratings for major international tournamentshttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-Here are their average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com ratings for major international tournaments
-Messi: 8.0
-Ronaldo: 7.6
-The idea messi is poor with Argentina, completely taken apart.
-Ronaldo: 7.6
-The idea messi is poor with Argentina, completely taken apart.
-We can also use http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com data to look deeper into the players, using data since 2009.(all competitions) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
Messi:
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250
Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857
-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.
-Mins per successful dribble: 18.5
-Dribble success: 61%
-Total successful dribbles: 2250
Ronaldo:
-Mins per successful dribble: 48.9
-Dribble success: 52.9%
-Total successful dribbles: 857
-Not that it was up for debate, but Messi is the clear better dribbler.
Messi:
Mins per key pass: 37.4
Ronaldo:
Mins per key pass: 51.3
-Again, not surprising.
Mins per key pass: 37.4
Ronaldo:
Mins per key pass: 51.3
-Again, not surprising.
Messi:
-Mins per tackle: 131.2
-Mins per interception: 226.8
Ronaldo:
-Mins per tackle: 231.3
-Mins per interception: 275.5
-Messi leads in these two pressure defensive numbers, which doesn’t surprise me, as he plays on average deeper, yet still maintains a better G/A ratio.
-Mins per tackle: 131.2
-Mins per interception: 226.8
Ronaldo:
-Mins per tackle: 231.3
-Mins per interception: 275.5
-Messi leads in these two pressure defensive numbers, which doesn’t surprise me, as he plays on average deeper, yet still maintains a better G/A ratio.
-So, you’d think with Messi being the more consistent scorer, creator, dribbler, tackler, and overall being more involved in the game, he would have of averaged a better rating in all comps since 2009, you’d be correct.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com rating since 2009 (all competition, club and country):
-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.
-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.
-Messi on his own level.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤯" title="Exploding head" aria-label="Emoji: Exploding head">
-Messi: 8.58, 264 Motm awards.
-CR7: 8.07, 154 Motm awards.
-Messi on his own level.
-Now, i very rarely see people use advanced metrics to judge Messi and Ronaldo, so that’s what I’m going to do.
-Using data from http://understat.com"> http://understat.com , which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.
-Using data from http://understat.com"> http://understat.com , which has data from the 14/15 season onwards, we can see lots about the two players since this time.
-Messi leads in:
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90
-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90
Goals per 90
xGBuildup90
xGChain90
Keypasses per 90
xAssists per90
Assists per 90
-CR7 leads in:
Shots per 90
xG per 90
-So Ronaldo takes more shots yet scores less, and has a higher expected goals per 90, but lower actual goals per90.
-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?
-You’d be correct.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-That tells us Messi must be the more clinical finisher?
-You’d be correct.
-Since the 14/15 season, Messi has an xG (expected goals) of 160, he has actually scored 195, out performing his xG by 35 goals.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤯" title="Exploding head" aria-label="Emoji: Exploding head">https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="🤯" title="Exploding head" aria-label="Emoji: Exploding head">
-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
-In the same time, CR7 has an xG of 167.98, and has scored 176 goals, out performing his xG by 8.02.
-We can look at the same numbers, but take out penalties:
-Messi out performs his xG by 35.78.
-Cr7 out performs his xG by 5.44
-It’s clear to see who the more clinical finisher is.
-Messi out performs his xG by 35.78.
-Cr7 out performs his xG by 5.44
-It’s clear to see who the more clinical finisher is.
-All I’ve said so far should be more than enough to show Messi has been the better footballer, but I’ll now look at a couple more claims and arguments against Messi.
-First, “Ronaldo plays better in the Champions league”.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-First, “Ronaldo plays better in the Champions league”.
-Another one of those claims that, even if they were true, wouldn’t suddenly take away the whole career better numbers from Messi, but let’s look at it anyway.
Minutes per G/A in champions league:
-Messi: 76.9
-Ronaldo: 84.3
http://Whoscored.com"> http://Whoscored.com match UCL match ratings and Motm awards:
-Messi: 8.46, 59 Motm awards.
-Ronaldo: 8.01, 37 Motm awards.
-Using Logic, I know who I’d say has performed better.
-Messi: 76.9
-Ronaldo: 84.3
http://Whoscored.com"> http://Whoscored.com match UCL match ratings and Motm awards:
-Messi: 8.46, 59 Motm awards.
-Ronaldo: 8.01, 37 Motm awards.
-Using Logic, I know who I’d say has performed better.
-However, the one argument that gets said the most, is that “Messi disappears“ in “big games”, they then refer to the KO stage of the UCL and seem to think that’s the definition of big games.
-And yes CR7 does have a better Mins per G/A in the KO stage of the UCL.https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-And yes CR7 does have a better Mins per G/A in the KO stage of the UCL.
Ronaldo: 88.2
Messi: 99.2
-This of course doesn’t show overall performance, but even if it did, does having a better ratio in the KO stage of 1 specific tournament match up to having it across a whole entire career? Absolutely not.
Messi: 99.2
-This of course doesn’t show overall performance, but even if it did, does having a better ratio in the KO stage of 1 specific tournament match up to having it across a whole entire career? Absolutely not.
-And when did ”UCL KO games“ suddenly become the judgment of big games?
-Why not look at that ratio in UCL finals only:
Messi: G/A every 90 mins
Ronaldo: G/A every 126 mins
-Or even better, ALL career finalshttps://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/... draggable="false" alt="⬇️" title="Downwards arrow" aria-label="Emoji: Downwards arrow">
-Why not look at that ratio in UCL finals only:
Messi: G/A every 90 mins
Ronaldo: G/A every 126 mins
-Or even better, ALL career finals
Messi: G/A every 83.2 mins
Ronaldo: G/A every 135.2 mins
-Or how about times they‘ve faced head to head:
Messi: G/A every 89 mins
Ronaldo: G/A every 145 mins
-Or how about El Classico record:
Messi: 0.98 G/A per game
Ronaldo: 0.65 G/A per game
Ronaldo: G/A every 135.2 mins
-Or how about times they‘ve faced head to head:
Messi: G/A every 89 mins
Ronaldo: G/A every 145 mins
-Or how about El Classico record:
Messi: 0.98 G/A per game
Ronaldo: 0.65 G/A per game
-I never want to hear the sorry excuse and myth that “Messi isn’t a big game player”, simply because Ronaldo has a better record in the KO stage of 1 competition, ever again.
-Another myth we hear is “Messi couldn’t do it in the PL”.
-Another myth we hear is “Messi couldn’t do it in the PL”.
-Messi Record against PL top 6 teams only, dating back to 2006, 8 matches being before he was 21:
-Mins per G/A: 90.6
-Ronaldo record against PL teams, all 20 of the ones in the league, a clearly weaker opposition on average:
-Mins per G/A: 112.7
-Mins per G/A: 90.6
-Ronaldo record against PL teams, all 20 of the ones in the league, a clearly weaker opposition on average:
-Mins per G/A: 112.7
-I don’t want to hear that sorry myth again either.
-Another flawed argument is ”Ronaldo has a better g/a per game in la liga than Messi”
-Well of course he does, he spent his prime 9 years their, vs Messi spending all his youth their too.
-Another flawed argument is ”Ronaldo has a better g/a per game in la liga than Messi”
-Well of course he does, he spent his prime 9 years their, vs Messi spending all his youth their too.
-A better way to see who performed better in La Liga, is to compare their times whilst they were in the league together:
Messi:
-Mins per G/A: 57.2
-Average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com rating and Motm awards: 8.66 & 166 Motm awards.
Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 61.9
-Average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com rating and Motm awards: 8.18 & 93 Motm awards.
-Another stupid argument dismantled.
-Mins per G/A: 57.2
-Average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com rating and Motm awards: 8.66 & 166 Motm awards.
Ronaldo:
-Mins per G/A: 61.9
-Average http://whoscored.com"> http://whoscored.com rating and Motm awards: 8.18 & 93 Motm awards.
-Another stupid argument dismantled.
-Finally, before I stop, lets quickly compare their prime season:
Messi,11/12:
-Goals: 73
-Assists: 31
-Mins per G/A: 50.2
-Whoscored.com rating: 8.88
-Motm awards: 32
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CR7, 14/15
-Goals: 61
-Assists: 22
-Mins per G/A: 55.9
-Whoscored.com rating: 8.2
-Motm awards: 19
Messi,11/12:
-Goals: 73
-Assists: 31
-Mins per G/A: 50.2
-Whoscored.com rating: 8.88
-Motm awards: 32
CR7, 14/15
-Goals: 61
-Assists: 22
-Mins per G/A: 55.9
-Whoscored.com rating: 8.2
-Motm awards: 19
-In fact, even in Ronaldo‘s best season (14/15) Messi had more G/A than Ronaldo, (86 vs 83).
-Simply no comparison.
-Simply no comparison.
-I’ll stop here, all of this is plenty of proof, i’ve never understood why it’s been a debate.
-No logical person can possibly think CR7 is better, not after reading this or knowing all the facts.
-Messi is the greatest to ever play the game, and it’s an insult to compare him.
-No logical person can possibly think CR7 is better, not after reading this or knowing all the facts.
-Messi is the greatest to ever play the game, and it’s an insult to compare him.
End of thread, thanks for reading this far.
Like and RT if you enjoy, no argument will suffice.
All data from: http://www.transfermarkt.com"> http://www.transfermarkt.com , http://www.whoscored.com"> http://www.whoscored.com , http://www.understat.com"> http://www.understat.com .
Like and RT if you enjoy, no argument will suffice.
All data from: http://www.transfermarkt.com"> http://www.transfermarkt.com , http://www.whoscored.com"> http://www.whoscored.com , http://www.understat.com"> http://www.understat.com .
