I feel like everyone thinks I'm a cowardly Menshevik for this but it seems obvious to me this is both and https://twitter.com/jemgilbert/status/1263781297966776320

a) Momentum and Corbynism's major success has been an urban coalition of ahem 'graduates without a future' who would have been Green, sect, Lib Dem or not voting with a working class BAME vote which while generally Labour, often didn't vote previously. That's good not bad

b) while this has happened, no such coalition has emerged in smaller towns and cities in N and Mids, despite sporadic good examples like Preston. One needs to be built - not sure if you build it by denigrating the only success though

c) I think a lot of people are assuming that those places can just be written off as 'well, racist boomers who bought their council houses, what to do'. That's a factor, but so too is massive depoliticisation in the workplaces and shitty (and usually Labour) local authorities

d) if the left can't -both- be an urban 'social movement' that is in some ways yes 'subcultural' -and- a mobilising and politicising force in workplaces and local authorities we will lose and lose and lose

this is basically the sum of why I think both the Forward and Renewal factions have a point and why I find the entire argument incredibly frustrating