I don't like "ethical" veganism. Do what you want, be vegan, but there's nothing ethical or humane about industrialized agriculture, doesn't matter what u eat. If you wanna have a real discussion, let's talk permaculture, localized production, dual power, etc.

I've made efforts at veganism for my health, and I've been forced into vegetatianism before because I couldn't afford a lot of animal foods, but I also grew up on a small farm with hunters in the family, and ur not gonna convince me that's wrong.

A sustainable agri model would have everyone eating SIGNIFICANTLY less meat anyway. That's what I'd rather focus on. Can't have chicken nuggets every day when it takes u months to raise a chicken. Makes it matter more. Can expand that to a community model, then federate.

Also small scale animal farming supports plant farming, it's a natural cycle. Chickens keep bugs off crops, can fertilize and supplement compost, will eat garden scraps, etc. It can be a closed ecosystem. Self-sustaining

Any way go stand in front of a mirror and argue with yourself, I'm not interested

Like... you can't buy "ethical" food at a grocery store. Food that is being sold for money that was produced with private property is inherently not ethical, and no one is "bad" for eating it when we have no other choice. Food needs to be localized and decommodified.

That's the stage where we could have any kind of coherent discussion about what is "ethical"

Because it's an individualist approach that doesn't actually solve any problems. Be vegan if you want to, but it's not changing anything. We need to be building localized permaculture food production