One of my largest irritations whenever someone inevitably brings up the "is Batman fascist?!" argument, or applies it to superheroes at large, is that the Discourse typically fixates upon the *forms* - the Rules, the patterns of agnostic behavior that supposedly produce fascism.

Fascism isn't values neutral, though. It's defined by who and what it values.

Fascism and progressives alike fantasize about a world gone corrupt, oppressive power crushing the poor and weak, power abusing everyone for their own benefit until only drastic heroism can defy it.

Vigilante dreams of heroism for the marginalized superficially resemble the heroic ubermensch of the fascist narrative, which is why a strict fixation on agnostic patterns of defying centrist norms about peaceful change vs violent change, distrust of heroism, etc DO NOT WORK

The difference, the concrete and surest difference, is in premises and values. Things like "whose pain is important" and "what does corruption look like" and "who is the source of the cruelty and corruption in society?"

But centrists aren't comfortable criticizing values.

So instead they fixate on forms. "Superheroes engage in violence without state sanction, so they're fascist propaganda" is one hell of a lukewarm take

Bc believe it or not, even as someone who is generally a believer in the rule of law and isn't even an ACAB partisan -
If oppressed minorities could trust power, they wouldn't dream of superheroes. The peculiarities of the American legal pursuit of civil rights don't change that.

The first thing you should be looking at when it comes to "hero cleans up/fights back against a corrupt society" should always be "what constitutes corruption, and who is emblematic of it in the story?"

Process is important - quite important, and radicalism can easily lead good people in terrible, terrible directions - but when you're dealing with larger than life fiction, it's not the sole metric of Problematical Content.

Ps - Batman's not a "rich man who beats up poor people and the mentally ill" - not only are most of his villains not doing it because of their mental illness but bc they're career criminals, malicious career criminals are dangerous *regardless* of their being "poorer" than Bruce.

Somehow I think the working class folks who the Joker murders aren't going to be identifying more with the Joker than Bruce just bc Bruce is richer!