Thread by @MunchVII, Why Michael Jordan is CLEARLY both the GREATEST and BEST basketball player [...]

Why Michael Jordan is CLEARLY both the GREATEST and BEST basketball player of all time: A Thread

•Basic accolades (PT.1) - Jordan vs. LeBron (Keep in mind Jordan has played two less years, including Wizards)

•Rings: 6>3

•MVPs: 5>4

•DPOYs: 1>0

•FMVPs: 6>3

•Scoring titles: 10>1

•All-NBA 1st teams: 10<12

•All-NBA Teams: 11<14

•All-Defensive 1st Teams: 9>5

•Basic Accolades (PT.2)

•All-Defensive teams: 9>6

•Steals Leader: 3>0

•All-Star: 14<16

•Averages - Jordan vs. LeBron

•PPG: 30.1>27.1

•APG: 5.3<7.4

•An exaggerated gap, while yes assists aren't everything when it comes to passing and LeBron is definitely the better passer, Jordan had a different playstyle and system around him.

•RPG: 6.2<7.4

•Averages (PT.2)

•The gap in rebounds is way overexaggerated, especially when you consider Jordan is 2” shorter and 40-70 lbs lighter (both of their weights have fluctuated)

•STL: 2.3>1.6

•BLK:.8 = .8

•Same amount, Jordan significantly smaller

•FG%: 49.7<50.4

•Averages (PT.3)

•A less than 1% difference, and LeBron takes significantly more FGs under the rim, and is also bigger

•3PT%: 32.7<34.4

•Another exaggerated advantage for lebron

•Basic facets

•Scoring: Jordan>LeBron

•Passing: LeBron>Jordan

•Defense: Jordan>LeBron

•More versatile defender ≠ Better defender

•Athleticism: Jordan>LeBron

•Strength: LeBron>Jordan

•If you think being a better passer and being stronger makes you better, seek help

•Total stats - Jordan vs. LeBron (Each of their 13 best seasons in each category)

•Points: 29277>27701

•Rebounds: 6672<7067

•Assists: 5012<7522

•Steals: 2306>1669

•Blocks: 828>818

•again, if you think averaging more assists and rebounds makes you better, seek help

Now we will get into the common arguments seen by LeBron fans:

•1-9 w/o pippen

•These were the first three years of Jordan’s career, and not only did he not have much help, he played the Bucks with Sidney Moncrief as a rookie, and the great Celtics teams the next two years.

1-9 w/o Pippen (PT. 2)

In LeBron’s first two years, he didn’t even make the playoffs. Jordan averaged 8 more ppg (35.5 vs 27.5) in his first three years IN THE LEAGUE in the playoffs than LeBron did in his first three years in the playoffs (years 3,4 and 5 in the league).

1-9 w/o Pippen (PT. 3)

Jordan also only averaged .4 less assists and 1.7 less rebounds than LeBron in this period. Jordan also averaged .8 more steals (2.4 vs 1.6) and .7 more blocks (1.5 vs .8)

1-9 w/o Pippen (PT. 4)

On a BETTER FG% while taking many more shots from not around the basket (45.5 vs 43.3). All great players need other great players to win championships, LeBron has won nothing without Wade or Kyrie.

•“Weak era”

•If you genuinely make this argument you’re clearly delusional.

“Weak Era” (PT.2)
To start, because people like to make the argument that players are “Bigger now”, the height difference in both is miniscule (200.315cm Jordan vs. 200.593 cm LeBron), and while there is a weight difference (208.324lbs Jordan vs. 219.266 LeBron)

“Weak Era” (PT.3)

This is more than made up for by the significantly more physical style of play. Due to less spacing and 3pt shooting, getting to the basket was much tougher in Jordan's era. The style of play was also much rougher.

“Weak Era” (PT.4)

Many flagrants now were common fouls, and many common fouls now were fair game then. The bad boy Pistons literally had a plan to try and take out Jordan physically, and hurt him, called “The Jordan Rules”.

“Weak Era” (PT.5)

I can guarantee you if a team were to do this to LeBron, an investigation would be launched and there would be suspensions and fines, as THIS warranted a suspension for Draymond Green in the FINALS. LeBron literally stepped OVER him... hella disrespectful

•Competition argument

•This is a weak argument as well, as there were many players in the 80s and 90s just as talented as many now, they were just all outshined so much by Jordan that people who weren’t around underrate them.

Competition Argument (PT.2)

Jordan OWNED his era (his era was 1990-98, not saying his whole career, as i would say LeBron’s era is 2010-2018) While Jordan completely owned his era, many people ate off LeBron’s plate during his.

Competition Argument (PT.3)

Kawhi, Durant, Curry, Duncan, Dirk, all took from LeBron on the biggest stage.

Competition Argument (PT.4)

Oh, and in 2018, which many consider the best LeBron, he was taken to seven games in the first round by a Pacers team whose best player was Victor Oladipo, and a Celtics team lead by rookie Tatum without an all star as Kyrie and Hayward were hurt.

•Mental toughness

•Jordan is clearly significantly more mentally tough than LeBron overall. While LeBron’s killer instinct did come in 2016, though that was the only time we really saw it in full effect.

Mental toughness (PT.2)

LeBron had the biggest meltdown by a superstar in Finals history in 2011, being the third leading scorer on the Heat and being outplayed by Jason Terry while playing 11 more minutes per game.

•Chokes

•Jordan has never had a meltdown in the playoffs, unlike lebron, Jordan has only averaged below 30 PPG once in the playoffs, in his rookie year, while LeBron has only averaged 30 in 6 playoffs out of his 13 total appearances.

Chokes (PT.2)

LeBron has also missed the playoffs 3 times, something Jordan never did in his 13 years in Chicago.

Choke #1: 2011

•The 2011 NBA Finals, as we all know, is the greatest meltdown by a superstar in Finals history. LeBron averaged 17.8 PPG, the third highest on the Heat, 7.2 REB, 2nd to Bosh, and 6.8 APG on 47.8% from the field.

Choke #1: 2011 (PT.2)

Jason Terry averaged 18.0 PPG on 49.4% from the field that series, in just over 11 less minutes per game. LeBron also put up 5 or more points in the fourth quarter only twice this series, and also only shot 50% or greater in the fourth in these two games.

Choke #2: 2014

•While this wasn’t a complete meltdown like 2011, LeBron still left much to be desired. While yes, Wade’s knees were bad, he still played every game, and LeBron still had an amazing coach and star in Bosh.

Choke #2: 2014 (PT.2)

This should have been more than enough help for LeBron to beat a 22 y/o Kawhi and a 37 y/o Duncan. LeBron lost 4-1 this year, just completely dominated by San Antonio.

Choke #2: 2014 (PT.3)

While yes, LeBron did a lot on offense, in two pivotal losses, games 3 and 5, LeBron allowed a 22 y/o Kawhi Leonard to average 25.5 PPG on 73.45% FG in these two games.

•Asterisks

•LeBron fans love to say “Oh, 2015 no Kyrie or Love, 2014 Wade bad knees” etc. They fail to acknowledge that this argument would also diminish LeBron’s most significant championship, 2016, the only thread that LeBron fans hold onto to claim he was the goat.

Asterisks (PT.2)

In 2016, Stephen Curry was clearly not 100%, the Warriors Andrew Bogut was hurt (may seem insignificant, but he was their only inside presence), oh and Draymond Green’s very suspect suspension (referenced earlier) completely flipped the momentum of the series.

•Making teammates better

•An argument that is heard is that “LeBron makes his teammates better and Jordan doesn’t”. This is an ignorant statement as well.

Making teammates better (PT. 2)

As we are now seeing more in depth in The Last Dance, Jordan clearly pushed his teammates to a different level than they would have ever gotten to without him, and was key in molding Pippen into the perfect sidekick.

Making teammates better (PT.3)

Just because LeBron is a better facilitator doesn’t mean Jordan doesn’t make his teammates better.

•“Losing in the finals is better than losing in the first round”

•This argument is just flat out terrible. It is clear that 3 less finals appearances and double the finals WINS is better.

“Losing in the finals is better than losing in the first round” (PT.2)

Also, the only teams that Jordan ever lost to in the first round were the Bucks in his rookie year, while averaging more than LeBron did in most of his playoff runs, and the all-time great Celtics teams,

“Losing in the finals is better than losing in the first round” (PT.3)

while averaging 39.7 in those two series, significantly more than LeBron has ever averaged in a playoff run. These teams were much better than teams that took what many consider the best LeBron to 7 in 2018.

•“What ifs”

•One thing I see among LeBron fans is speaking hypothetically a lot, “Oh well if lebron had ___” etc. To that I say this, what if Ray Allen and Kyrie missed those shots? Then LeBron would be 1-8… If Jordan never retired he’d have eight rings.

“What if’s” (PT.2)

Point is, speaking in the hypothetical is dumb in a debate, look at what actually happened, not what could have.

CONCLUSION

I have nothing against LeBron, he just isn’t Jordan and people need to accept that. The second best to ever live ain’t too bad. Tag your fave MJ fan or bronsexual below :) I worked dumb hard on this

Bron fans already pressed in my replies without even readin it

even y’all know it’s no contest

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