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I'VE BEEN THREATENING THIS!!
Karkat vs Kankri : differences and similarities and key takeaways - a thread!
Sub-subtitle: they're really not as different as they might first appear.
Karkat vs Kankri : differences and similarities and key takeaways - a thread!Sub-subtitle: they're really not as different as they might first appear.
First we need to acknowledge is Karkat is obviously just as shaken up meeting his dancestor as everyone else is. which makes sense cuz if this was any other situation, Karkat wouldn't let himself get so steamrolled.
also, Dave, definitely not thinking about bro: ancestors, man
also, Dave, definitely not thinking about bro: ancestors, man
But let's put davekat relating about ancestors in a lil box away for later. Let's look at this instead! Kankri is clearly BURSTING to talk, he doesn't quite go off at others quite like he does with Karkat. And frankly Kankri makes some points!
The problem with the above is less that Kankri doesn't have well-thought through ideas, but that he's had an eternity to mull over them, hasn't given Karkat room to talk about his own experiences and actually discuss them, and is a bit too eager to impress his descendent.
There is a very clear takeaway here that Kankri is just... really excited to finally have someone he thinks could fully understand his struggles, to validate him, even if they didn't grow up in the same society. This fails to account for how Karkat is STILL AN EMPRESS APOLOGIST.
At this point Karkat is STRUGGLING WITH HIS ROLE AND WHAT HE ACTUALLY WANTED FROM HIS SOCIETY. You know, like how being a minority can you make buy into the oppressor's lies because otherwise you have to face the fact you have no future or chance at normal life every single day.
I do like to think Karkat mulls over what Kankri says later, which is why we see him improve, but... he's very much halfway on that healing. And Kankri really doesn't help himself by fussing over what are relatively small and inconsequential details with the bigger issues.
Like thusly! What would really bother Karkat is the "we'll pause to see is we can really explore those issues, and identify exactly how I may have invalidated your struggles" since further discussing something private and personal that bothers/triggers you... no. He'd hate that.
Let's move on. An interesting bit about this interaction is how Kankri would prefer to be called insufferable, rather than being condescended to like he perceives Porrim to do. Also, absolutely fair to dictate the name he's called by, and be put-off by the idea of incest. BUT!!
The slut-shaming was uncalled for, let's just get that out of the way. But it is important for this thread as it's... being mean as a defense mechanism, and to dismiss someone's ideas out of spite. We see Karkat behave similarly a fair amount. It's bad, but it's crabs.
whispers Kankri is also low-key hilarious the same way Karkat is. Choo Choo Catastrophes? Amazing.
Anyway.
While Kankri is A Joke about SJWs, we need to acknowledge he doe care about problems that, in-universe, were part of a real and actual system of well-meaning oppression.
Anyway.
While Kankri is A Joke about SJWs, we need to acknowledge he doe care about problems that, in-universe, were part of a real and actual system of well-meaning oppression.
So Kankri vs Porrim on an intellectual level is fascinating to dissect, as word of the god we're supposed to root for Porrim but frankly, she's just as dismissive of some of Kankri's valid opinions and requests too. This no doubt leads to a circular butting of heads.
Kankri does have a point that sexism is an issue in their society because society forces people into strict blood-based castes and arbitrarily decides some are 'better' and allows them to make all the decisions. Really, both need to lean into intersectional social justice more.
Anyway Karkat is shook enough to remain quiet until they get to the door for a password, and he admits his head is left swimming by the encounter - let alone the differences in their experiences/societies. I think he was VERY affected by it, as I said before.
THEN I'M BRINGING IN THIS PART because it illustrates a previous point I made: Kankri and Karkat are similar. He is being dismissive and spiteful as a defense, both for himself and Terezi here. But also what insults he lobbies at Kankri can be applied to him at other times too.
Really the biggest difference is their approach. karkat is more concerned with wanting to fit in. he wants a place to Be. he hides his issues and goes, this is nobody's business but mine. this is personal, it's part of my identity, and none of you get to know anything about it.
kankri wants to tear it down society and other people because if it can't fit him in it there's a Problem. he doesn't let anyone ever ignore his identity. it's here and part of me and all of you have to deal with it every fucking day because he does.
There's also an interesting dichotomy because karkat's the "loud" one and he lets his grievances be known directly instead of putting soft language around problematizing something. The key to both crabs is literally like. listen to their problems and don't undermine them.
If you relate to them as an individual you'll be fine, this is why Kankri likes Latula so much - her kindness isn't condescending to him. Otherwise crabs get shittier and meaner the shittier and meaner you are to them and vice versa.
Or maybe it's better understood as they'd rather be in on a joke than the butt of a joke? It all really does depend on their mood too.
But it is unclear what Kankri's end goal is wrt his behaviour, does he want to be respected or hated? With the case of Porrim - she's the only person we see be nice to Kankri, but she does it in a way he explicitly requests that she not do, thus his shittiness.
He probably has trouble parsing positive interactions as sincere. And that's not just a Kankri thing, that's a Karkat thing too - with compliments we see him either deny it, ignores it, or makes a ridiculous joke about it/blow it up to insane proportions. see: adorabloodthirsty.
Another note in this thread is how Kankri steps in on other conversations in Meenahquest with Horuss, Cronus, or Mituna... with what is a clear cry for attention/approval even if he clearly has a distaste for his comrades too.
This tracks with what Aranea says about him facing the same struggles as Karkat with leadership and getting taken seriously. So he genuinely tries to engage. He's just a bitch about it.
I also think another Crab Flag is that... Kankri is nicer and meaner to Mituna at the same time. It's wild because on some level its like, wait but the meta-criticism Kankri is doing is dead on! This is a fucked up way to portray what is essentially brain damage.
But in-universe it's just an incredibly shitty thing to say to someone. Which kinda proves karkat's point about kankri being a sanctimonious hyper-academic asshole. He focuses too much on discourse and not so much... the struggles people in front of him are actually facing.
But here's an interesting comparison about how Kankri approached an upset friend, vs how Karkat does. Karkat wasn't perfect, he included some pretty needless and rude opinions and maybe was a little too awkward, but made a genuine attempt. Kankri... phew.
He deliberately tries to affect an air of Correct and Moral and Caring yeah but a lot of his friends are assholes and he's been dealing with them for eternity (like, all the beforus trolls are just worse than all the alternia trolls. they just suck so fucking much.)
so he has a lot of internalized anger and resentment that leaks out by being backhanded and PA. That said, Kankri still wants to try being a friend to Mituna and has the LANGUAGE to be nice, but you can tell he resents the accident and probably grieves the friend he had.
