To be clear, cuz I know I’m cranky (I mean, I just had some of my finger amputated, so maybe let me have that), I appreciate @aetiology asking. It’s a good question with an unsatisfactory answer for everyone, in part because it’s actually two different ethics questions. (Thread) https://twitter.com/aetiology/status/1253808724709453825

The two questions really are:
1) is this an ethics violation? and
2) is this an ACTIONABLE ethics violation?

As @aetiology noted in her question to me, @neva9257, and @docfreeride, the person accused of unethical recruitment practices for a research trial isn’t on the project.

If you’re not on a project, you’re not bound by any ethical requirements for, well, anything. (Technically a little more complicated, but funding issues aren’t relevant.) I could give people money to enroll in @AlexJohnLondon’s trial, promise them puppies, etc. I’m not involved.

Because I’m not involved in the trial, I’m just an observer “helping” drive recruitment to Alex’s (fictional, to be clear) trial, I’m not bound by anything more than personal ethics. There is nothing to hold me accountable against.

More importantly for Alex, unless it can be shown he knew all this, HE cannot be held accountable for my actions. It’s not his fault an overzealous supporter did ethically fraught things (think of the puppies!) to drive recruitment to his trial. There’s no actionable violation.

So then we circle back to the first question, which is what @thephilosotroll was asking: is this, in general and without regard to any actions taken against the researchers, unethical behavior on the part of the person writing the recruitment letter? Short answer: possibly.

Not satisfying, I know. But I don’t have all the details. I know that frustrates the hell out of people about ethics, and ethicists, but the devil? In the details.

Let’s say she flat out lied about it being FDA-approved. Yep, I’d call that unethical. But telling people the data may, even would, help them go back to work sooner? That’s not a lie or even huge misrepresentation Not when governors say we need that data to reopen the economy

Would I recommend people recruit like this? No, but I also don’t recommend using MTurk; no one listens to me there either. Do I think it’s unethical? It’s definitely ISH & iffy, & with more details I might say SHE was knowingly acting unethically. But she isn’t on the paper

And fundamentally, that’s what we care about: is the PAPER unethical?

I don’t see signs that it is. I do see signs (not @aetiology, to be clear) of people wanting to weaponize ethics to further their own beef with Ioannidis.

Also, see this convo for more https://twitter.com/neva9257/status/1253830239282757633?s=21 https://twitter.com/neva9257/status/1253830239282757633