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Small thread about my feelings on fighting games, just because
I went back and played Blazblue Centralfiction the other day after a long time of sticking to newer games. That's Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, currently Granblue Versus, and a little stint with DBFZ.
I went back and played Blazblue Centralfiction the other day after a long time of sticking to newer games. That's Tekken 7, Street Fighter V, currently Granblue Versus, and a little stint with DBFZ.
For me, having access to opponents and convenient matches is important, so I mostly stick to the popular games. I'm not big on having to hunt people down for fights, so I don't play a lot of older or more niche stuff regularly, but I do usually try anything eye catching.
Anyway, to jump ahead a little and make my point known:
Modern gameplay trends in fighters feel a bit *too* simple.
(also I miss when FGs were full of flavor. Blazblue's 20 character specific matchup BGMs actually *do* enhance the experience)
Modern gameplay trends in fighters feel a bit *too* simple.
(also I miss when FGs were full of flavor. Blazblue's 20 character specific matchup BGMs actually *do* enhance the experience)
When I was playing Blazblue again, I really took notice of how much more 'in control' I felt of what I was doing. In particular, recoveries that are fast, snappy, and controllable > slow recoveries that can only quick rise or back rise.
Movement in general feels better when we let things be snappy. And as a note, this isn't about how in Blazblue you can do 90 kinds of airdash and in SFV you can't, I'm just saying that Hakumen's forward dash hop feels a million times better than any given SFV dash. Except Bison's
Another thing I remember was when.. normals were interesting? I feel a lot more engaged when I'm stringing a flowing set of normals and going for reactive and quick on-the-fly mixups and overheads that actually go somewhere than I do with autocombos and negative on-hit overheads.
Despite all that, there's a reason I don't play blazblue, and instead I play the more simpler modern games. One is that it's what most people are doing, but two is that even though I miss all of those things, I'm much more competitive in the less complicated (1/2)
arguably less convoluted games that get played a lot today. Blazblue is hard, doing those combos is hard. Probably too hard, if I'm being honest, but when I played Blazblue recently, I didn't play seriously, I just picked up the stick with @OmegaKyuu and went at it like old times
(which was amazing offline, by the way. Holy shit we need better netcode in fighters.)
It got me thinking though.. I was having a lot of fun, even though I had no clue what I was doing. I don't have fun doing that in modern fighters, and I'm not quite sure why.
It got me thinking though.. I was having a lot of fun, even though I had no clue what I was doing. I don't have fun doing that in modern fighters, and I'm not quite sure why.
I mean I had some clue what I was doing, but nothing remotely competitive. I think simplifying the core gameplay to remove extensive and overly intricate combos, and make sure that everyone gets a chance at a comeback in a round is fine. I like these things about modern games.
I miss how normals were in older anime fighters though, it was always fun to be able to do long pressure sequences where you can be expressive in how you apply that pressure.
It's not the same as hitting a GBVS autocombo and then going to overhead, sweep, throw, or your safest ender. I get the gameplay is meant to have a different focus, but letting me handle normals on my own definitely feels better than precanned strings.
I'm a 2D fighter person before 3D, but in a way, Tekken 7 is probably my favorite modern fighter because it's doing its own thing, it's not an excessive simplification of a pre-existing formula. IDK how Tekken 7 is viewed compared to the rest of the series, but I like T7 a lot.
The other thing I wanted to mention here was defense, and I know this one's gonna get me some flak. SFV's defense? I like. Tekken 7? I like. Everything else? Big ol' 'meh.' Any game that's got meterless invuln reversals, and also focuses on small strings over long sequences? WHY
SFV's metered reversal change was fantastic. It added a layer to that whole mind game, and it stopped people from overly leaning on their reversals. It made oki feel thoughtful and strong. When I fight a shoto in GBVS I want to pull my teeth out.
Hot take: If you play a shoto in GBVS, then you can't tell me you don't know what people mean when they say 'privilege.'
Honestly GBVS is probably my biggest point of contention atm for maybe going one too far with it's simplification, despite feeling honestly rather technical and clunky. I want to have a long talk with whoever thought about making jumps work that way.
Every time I get crossup'd in GBVS because of wonky jump arcs and hitboxing I genuinely want to quit. I know I can get good and handle it, but that doesn't make it okay, the jump arcs are still terrible. But it's simple! It's "accessible"! I really wonder if that's true.
That said here's a big word of praise for GBVS's skill cooldown system. You did it, guys, you made EX moves interesting by not tying them to super meter. You made supers useful by making the meter *only* used for supers. This is probably GBVS's best facet, aside from...
A nice, small, well rounded roster. DLC will ruin this, I'm sure. It always does.
Question for FG devs: Do you think people want to learn 40 matchups?
Question for FG players: Do you guys seriously enjoy learning 40 matchups?
Question for FG devs: Do you think people want to learn 40 matchups?
Question for FG players: Do you guys seriously enjoy learning 40 matchups?
I know Tekken people somehow just deal, despite having a big roster and also characters with 10 times the number of moves that 2D characters have, but Tekken has a lot going for it that downplays the matchup in favor of putting the focus on knowledge of your own character.
I've been seriously into fighters since around the time Blazblue CT dropped in the West, and the series was definitely my awakening to being competitive, even though I never stuck with it. There *is* a nostalgia bias, I admit that, but I don't think that explains it all.
I honestly have no perception of my own skill level, but I'd like to think I'm good enough that I could attend locals and not consistently 0-2. Not that I can overcome the social anxiety, but.. that's another thread.
All I mean to say with all that is "I'm far from good enough to be an authority, but I'd like to think I have the skill to give my words a little weight." I also definitely am speaking from a 'feel' perspective, more about what's fun and feels like good design.
The competitive implications of all of this are for someone more knowledgeable and experienced than me, I just find myself wishing that we could get rid of the clunk as easily as the complexity. We make fighters simpler, but are they really easier? Are they more accessible?
Knowing how to play a fighter, the grand concepts rather than the game specific stuff, is the big barrier. *That's* the stuff you need to get over the first hurdle of being good. I pick up fighters faster than the people I know because my experiences transfers.
That's not to say I'm 'really good without trying.' I'm just really good without trying for the first few days before people put in the effort to really learn what they're doing. Then I suck because I don't like labbing or doing research. I like to fight, and I do okay with that.
small disclaimer, anything in the ahead tweets referring to frame data mostly refers to learning how to read it and use it, not 'memorize all these numbers'
When it comes to reading the data, you *do* have to learn that stuff imo. Anyone who's telling you 'nah you don't have to learn frame data, just have fun' is doing you a disservice. Learn to read the frame data. Learn fundamentals. Learn the things you can transfer to other games
That's if you want to be competitive or improve, of course. If you're just playing for fun and just want to be casual, by all means disregard the frame data. I'm honestly jealous that you get to do that, because having to learn frame data is not something I would describe as...
a positive part of learning how to play. And for all the added simplicity in modern, has it made frame data any less annoying? Has it made people who say "I don't play fighters because they're too hard" suddenly want to learn to read a new kind of information entirely?
I play FGs regularly and I *still* hate frame data. There's nothing fun about it unless you're big on numbers.
My stream of rant-y consciousness is starting to fade, so I'm gonna wrap it up there. Everything in this thread was opinion. I'm not asserting my views as 'right,' it's just how I feel and think about fighters right now, and mostly a wishlist for how I want them to improve.
I think I've kinda clicked how I feel though. Modern fighters are easier to learn for people who already know how to play fighters, and people who don't alike. The key point is I don't feel like they do a good enough job teaching you how to *really* play them.
I know 'better tutorials please' is a pretty uncontroversial viewpoint, but seriously. BETTER TUTORIALS PLEASE.
Then, to close this out, one last opinion on fighting games we can all agree on.
"GGPO is open source now guys, come the fuck on, delay netcode in 2020???" G'night
Then, to close this out, one last opinion on fighting games we can all agree on.
"GGPO is open source now guys, come the fuck on, delay netcode in 2020???" G'night
