Thread by @PolishedMarcus, This thread is to compare the careers of LeBron James and his [...]

This thread is to compare the careers of LeBron James and his idol Michael Jordan, and why some people believe LeBron is worthy of the “GOAT” tag.

MJ was drafted at 21 years, 252 days old.

LeBron by that age had already compiled 3 seasons in the NBA. What’d he do in these seasons? Win Rookie of the Year, finish 6th in MVP voting the following season, and finish 2nd in MVP voting his 3rd year in the league.

The year LeBron finished 2nd in MVP voting, the Cavs made the playoffs and faced the Wizards led by Gilbert Arenas and 64 win Pistons led by 4 All-Stars.

The LeBron-led Cavs beat Washington and took Detroit 7 games despite his 2nd option, Larry Hughes, missing games injured.

LeBron in his first ever playoff run:

45/7/6
41/5/3
38/6/5
32/11/11
32/7/7
32/5/5
32/11/5
30/14/7
27 & 8
26 & 9
22/4/4
22/8/9
21/10/10

MJ at this age was getting ready for the draft.

Rookie MJ at 21/22 years old was putting up big numbers, but was a ball-hog and had yet learned how to play defense. The following year he missed more than half the season and the Bulls sneaked in with an atrocious 30-52 record, where MJ would torch the legendary 67 win Celtics.

Bill Lambier:
“More importantly, when he [LeBron] came into the league, from day 1, he knew how to involve his teammates to win. That’s something Jordan had to learn for a long time.”

Early on MJ was a raw scorer and nothing more. LeBron from the gates was a team player.

64 win Pistons
4 all-stars
DPOY

66 win Celtics
3 all-stars
DPOY

LeBron and the Cavs took both of these teams to 7 games in 2006 and 2008. Sandwiched in between these years, he led the Cavs to the NBA Finals in 2007.

This is a 21-23 year old LeBron.

Also, I’d like to note that I don’t think these teams LeBron was on were horrible and that he did all of this by himself. But these are impressive feats by a 21-23 year old with non-title contender worthy supporting casts.

LeBron and MJ both entered their primes at 23/24 years old where they’d both make leaps on the defensive side of the ball and win their 1st ever MVP.

This is where it gets easy to compare them because they both had a very similar career arch.

LeBron during the 2009/2010 seasons vs MJ during the 1988/1989 seasons:

The stats used are to compensate for pace differences, MJ played in a league with more possessions, which gives him more opportunities to rack up numbers.

Comparing their stats in the following tweets:

LeBron, 2009-2010 RS:

30.3 pts / per 75
7.3 reb
8.3 ast
59.8 TS%

Jordan, 1988-1989 RS:

31.4 pts / per 75
6.3 reb
6.5 ast
60.8 TS%

Okay, these are pretty much identical. Both were outstanding defenders as well. But the playoffs is what matters.

Both LeBron and MJ played in 5 playoff series in these 2 seasons.

LeBron 2009-2010 playoffs:

31.7 pts / per 75
8.9 reb
7.3 ast
61.4 TS%

Jordan 1988-1989 playoffs:

32.7 pts / per 75
6.5 reb
6.1 ast
60.1 TS%

Yeah, these players are close... let’s get more in detail.

The best team LeBron faced in the 2009 playoffs were the Magic. They won 59 games, were the #1 ranked defense and had the DPOY.

LeBron in this series:

38.5 points
8.3 rebounds
8.0 assists
59.1 TS%

The best team MJ faced in the 1988 playoffs was the Pistons. They won 54 games and were the #2 ranked defense.

Jordan in this series:

27.4 points
8.8 rebounds
4.6 assists
54.9 TS%

LeBron’s performance was clearly better.

Now the next year, LeBron “choked” vs the Celtics. Cleveland had a 2-1 lead and here’s how LeBron performed the last 3 games:

22/9/8, 7/18 shooting
15/6/7, 3/14 shooting
27/19/10, 9 turnovers

LeBron averaged 27/9/7 for the series and held Pierce to 13.5 pts on 34.5% shooting.

But what about MJ? Here’s how he performed against the Pistons in the 1989 ECF. The Bulls also had a 2-1 lead.

23/2/4, 5/15 shooting
18/5/9, 4/8 shooting (8 shots)
32/4/13, 8 turnovers

MJ averaged 30/6/7 for the series and held Isiah Thomas to 21 & 8 on 39.0% shooting. 8 SHOTS?

Me personally, I would say neither choked, but definitely underperformed, which I think should be credited more to the Pistons and Celtics all-time great defenses.

But anyways, I’d say LeBron’s series vs the Magic stands out which gives LeBron a slight edge for their 2 best statistical, peak seasons.

LeBron formed a Big 3 in Miami. The Bulls hired coach Phil Jackson, Pippen started to develop into an all-star caliber player and the Bulls emerged into true title contenders.

LeBron and the Heat destroyed the Big 4 Celtics and 1st seed Bulls to get to the Finals where LeBron had an uncharacteristic performance, and the Heat lost despite being favored over the Mavs. Huge blemish.

MJ and the Bulls got to the ECF and took the Pistons to 7 games. But in game 7 of this series MJ received no help and it’s known as the “Pippen migraine” game.

The 2011 Finals is a huge blemish on LeBron’s career and this is what MJ clearly has over him.

LeBron won his first championship in 2012, OKC was favored. Jordan won his first championship in 1991, LA was favored.

LeBron averaged 29 & 10 with 7 assists. Guarded Kevin Durant.

Jordan averaged 31 & 11 with 7 rebounds. Guarded Magic Johnson.

LeBron over the course of the next 2 seasons would make the Finals twice and split series against the Spurs. Wade and Bosh battled injuries and were a step slower and provided no help for LeBron in the 2014 Finals.

Jordan’s Bulls went onto 3-peat against the Blazers and Suns.

LeBron against the Spurs in the 2014 Finals:

28.2 points
7.8 rebounds
4.0 assists
67.9 TS%

Wade was nowhere to be found and the Spurs set Finals records shooting the basketball and were too much for the Heat.

LeBron went back home to fulfill his promise of bringing a championship to Cleveland. They made the Finals in 2015, but Kyrie got injured late in game 1 and Love missed the entire Finals.

That didn’t stop LeBron from single handedly winning 2 games against the 67 win Warriors.

Now what was MJ doing? He retired to go play minor league baseball. You don’t get bonus points for retiring, especially when LeBron at the same age is doing historic things.

Also, in the full season without MJ, the Bulls would win 55 games and Scottie Pippen had his best season yet finishing 3rd in MVP voting. They’d lose a close 7 game series against the Knicks.

An example of how good that Bulls team was.

LeBron the next season, with a healthy Kyrie, ran into an even better Warriors team that won a record 73 games in the regular season.

LeBron and the Cavs won in 7 games and LeBron in the last 3 games:

36.3 pts
11.7 reb
9.7 ast
3.0 stl
3.0 blk
2.7 tov
50.6 FG%
42.1 3P%

MJ at the same age? Returned to basketball, played 17 regular season games and ACTUALLY RECEIVED MVP VOTES? This is blatant propaganda.

Anyways, he’d go onto have a mediocre performance against the Magic in the playoffs and the Bulls would lose.

Both with 3 championships at this point their careers. LeBron more than made up for his 2011 Finals performance with his 2016 Finals performance, when MJ at the same age was playing baseball (again, no bonus points for retiring).

LeBron in the playoffs over the course of the next 2 seasons:

33.5 pts
9.1 reb
8.5 ast
55.0 FG%
37.6 3P%
63.2 TS%

He and the Cavs ran into the best team of all-time - the 73 win Warriors that added Kevin Durant. This stopped him from potentially winning even more rings.

LeBron went out West and his first year there, LA battled with injuries and would miss the playoffs. They then would add AD in the offseason and run it back. They’re the 1st seed in the West and LeBron is leading the NBA in assists and has reinvented himself defensively.

LeBron has put together 16 consecutive seasons playing at a high level, MJ played 11 full seasons at a high level. This is a massive advantage in longevity and it should matter when their peaks/primes were that close, as you saw in the thread.

Prime LeBron
2009-2018 playoffs
Faced on average:
6.8 ranked defense

29.2 points
9.1 rebounds
7.0 assists
59.1 TS%

Prime Jordan
1988-1998 playoffs
Faced on average:
8.2 ranked defense

33.3 points
6.4 rebounds
5.6 assists
56.8 TS%

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