I wonder if people have relationships with people they don't really like that much, because they think relationships are like a career ladder and you just need to work your way up from the bottom

Of course the opposite of how it works; you'll get the 'best' people at the beginning, variable depending on incomes and glowups. I see a lot of girls online being honest about the way their partners treat them/talk to them, and it makes you wonder.

There's also the MGTOWs who would make celibacy/hookup exceptions for the unicorn: 18 year old supermodel who funds their lifestyle, cooks, cleans and everything else.

Basically nobody really knows what they're doing with this stuff.

I think the dreamgirl would be someone like this, (clips of random stuff plus this Instagrammer, she posted on her feed) there's not many of them to go around.

Beautiful, seems to have (parental) money based on the clips, optimistic (inferred) isn't old enough to have formed a fixed personality or any specific rules or requirements in what they expect from others. But she's not at the *end* of the relationship career ladder for anyone.

Also not old enough to resent being uselessly 'wanted' and resort to hiding from the world, and being your weird self instead, which is much more fun.

(A lot of inference here, based on myself when I was younger vs me now)

I guess people only want you for what you can do for them - even myself, when I tried dating, I would have vague ideas of guys helping me make music or accompanying me places so I wouldn't be scared. The list of 'what you can do for them' being a girl, can be quite tedious.

I guess it should be based only on genuine friendship and support, not a list of requirements, a ladder of achievement, nor taking advantage of someone's lack of discernment or optimism.

I had online friendships that lasted for 6 years based mostly on the vague notion they would help me with my music (I used to attempt to write songs and sing, but I can't play instruments well) where one helped me 0 and one guy did a very good edit/produced a song for me once

They were fun to talk to, mostly, but the vague idea of them helping me was probably also a driving force (also I'm impressed with creative talent, which they both have/had)

Idk is it possible to have a friendship/relationship without even a vague expectation?

I kinda ditched the music stuff once it became clear getting help wasn't really gonna happen (no Smiths origin story for me) - I also applied to people's gumtree ads, etc. Most guys I found use music to get chicks and chicks only, they didn't really want to actually *make* any

Accompany me places went ok, one guy was a good friend to me irl for years until he ditched me one night before a gig so he could prepare for a holiday the next day with a girl - who ditched *him* the next day (she literally cycled off)

Or guys just groping me during the gig.

So reduce your expectations to nothing: maybe just find someone you get along with? I think my brain has just erased most information relating to this, since I spent countless hours talking to, sifting through, and meeting guys and kinda didn't get anywhere significant.

My summary when I last thought about this years ago: I was ready to adjust around other people but they were not ready to adjust around me. I'm kinda weird I guess, though I adjust around anything - but unless you are an exact mirror of a guy it's not gonna happen.

Like if I made this rule for myself: You must have blonde or pink hair, be into dolls and figurines, cute stuff and animation, easy going, good at art, likes animals, introvert and extrovert (depending),

seems unreasonable but that's the reflection of what's expected

Waking up and being 'male' in any way or form is my worst nightmare. I won't change who I am but will always go along with whatever someone likes/does without harming others.

Something happens to old couples where the woman becomes an old man with tits and it terrifies me.....

Ok, so, find a guy like me? Yeah, they are all poly*, gay**, or narcissists dressing up as their victims in order to lure them (yes I met one, he dressed up as me for several months after we met, hair and clothes...)

*I am uncomfortable with this
**I'm not a boy

Anyway pray for me.

So I guess: seeking: male who likes girly/arty girls (no ddlg/fetish stuff)

I feel like men are extremely attracted to femininity, yet also want a companion who is a mirror of themselves, which is where the problems arise.

Every guy I've ever met was weird and unique, how are you supposed to meet a mirror of yourself when no person is the same? Then there are the problems mentioned in the first few Tweets in this thread; upgrades, expectations.

We need to adjust around others and support them.

btw narcissist guy is also the same guy who kinda catfished me (personality online was the exact opposite to irl) and kidnapped me, inspiring me to quit dating years ago - so the dressing up as me bit was just the cherry on the cake.

#GabyDating so I can find this thread again.

I even feel bad for the things I listed as not-preferable in this thread, like no fetishes/must be attracted to my gender/must be monogamous - I am happy with what people choose for themselves, and feel so guilty making the smallest basic/logical requirements for myself.

The monogamy thing is because having extra people to worry about sounds very stressful to me, I can only care about a limited number of people at a time, and it needs to be fixed and certain (maybe an ADHD thing) or is just concerns me.

(rereading thread) Dating was kinda like wading through a murky river of screaming spirits grabbing onto my legs, me shaking them off and wading forward. It was all complex and unpleasant, when it should be simple and straightforward.

What I learned quite quickly is 'get along with' 'enjoy company of' 'be attracted to' 'be comfortable with' are all not criteria that men value in a partner, and since there is no more complex plan or critera in my mind, I just hit a brick wall with all of 'em.

It's sorta like men and women are partaking in a sport where each of them have made up an entirely different set of rules, and neither knows what is required to win the other's game, while it's also impossible to win their *own* since their opponent is not playing by the rules

One person's playing basketball, the other football, anything that looks like a success was actually a fail from the opponent's perspective. Anyway, good job society, on making the most simple thing on the planet a complex and unpleasant rigmarole.

It kinda felt like a second full-time job, and took up so much of my time I stopped making art & music after a while. I spent all my time trying to figure out how to score points or win, trying to second-guess my opponent's next move, proceeding forward like playing a board game.

I guess the final note on this thread, is the more chill guys I met all expected the woman to take the lead in every regard (ask out, choose date, make romantic moves, etc - henlo I'm shy this is never gonna happen) and would usually psych themselves out of any progression.