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Thanks to muscular power bottom @KharloKong a bunch of queers talked about why gay men love female villains so much. I had a look at the answers, did some sifting, and found these major themes:
1. they are not boring, cliche straight male characters
[1/x]
1. they are not boring, cliche straight male characters
[1/x]
2. they are brainy/skilful, rather than reliant on brute force
3. they triumph over heroes who are often straight, macho, and otherwise patriarchy-like
[2/x]
3. they triumph over heroes who are often straight, macho, and otherwise patriarchy-like
[2/x]
3. they triumph over heroes who are often straight, macho, and otherwise patriarchy-like
4. they& #39;re like us: firstly, they& #39;re often queer-coded. they& #39;re also often othered, troubled, hated by religion, and (surprisingly enough) villainised
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4. they& #39;re like us: firstly, they& #39;re often queer-coded. they& #39;re also often othered, troubled, hated by religion, and (surprisingly enough) villainised
[3/x]
5. they are confident, unapologetic, powerful, sassy, in control, and have agency
6. they have varied backstories that let us understand their villainous behaviour
[4/x]
6. they have varied backstories that let us understand their villainous behaviour
[4/x]
I think we can relate all this to the homophobic, misogynistic spirit of society, and of (most) stories and characters.
Here& #39;s a few facts you probably already know:
-People like when their films/TV/etc. contain people like them so they feel less alone.
[5/x]
Here& #39;s a few facts you probably already know:
-People like when their films/TV/etc. contain people like them so they feel less alone.
[5/x]
-Much popular culture:
1. is SUPER straight
2. has painfully macho men, and celebrates their macho-ness
3. has very few women, and makes them passive and boring
4. has even fewer queers, and makes them passive and boring (and kills them)
[6/x]
1. is SUPER straight
2. has painfully macho men, and celebrates their macho-ness
3. has very few women, and makes them passive and boring
4. has even fewer queers, and makes them passive and boring (and kills them)
[6/x]
Macho men are everything that we& #39;re told we should be. Unwaveringly strong (physically and mentally), masculine, unemotional, and sexually pursuing women without respecting or caring for them.
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[7/x]
Their character designs tend to mirror this stuff. The Terminator (who is even literally a robot lol), the good guys in 300 (who gays want to bang but not particularly be), Indiana Jones, Tony Stark, James Bond, Rocky, Top Gun.
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[8/x]
Not great for the boys who don& #39;t always feel strong, aren& #39;t masculine, have feelings, and aren& #39;t into girls.
(Not all gay men are all of these, but it& #39;s a pretty tight Venn diagram.)
[9/x]
(Not all gay men are all of these, but it& #39;s a pretty tight Venn diagram.)
[9/x]
And also not great for creativity. We hit the same emotional notes and story beats again and again: being strong, punching your enemies into submission, winning the hand of the helpless ladywoman, maybe having some pretty generic father/son issues.
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[10/x]
Boringly, they also all tend to be white, masculine, muscular, thin, cis, hetero men with deep voices.
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[11/x]
Because there are so few actual queers available in popular culture, and the men are... not that relatable, we tend to latch on to people who have qualities like us, qualities we want, and are interesting.
[12/x]
[12/x]
Going back to our recurring themes.
Female villains are:
1. NOT boring, cliche straight male characters
2. they are brainy/skilful, rather than reliant on brute force
3. they triumph over heroes who are often straight, macho, and otherwise patriarchy-like
[13/x]
Female villains are:
1. NOT boring, cliche straight male characters
2. they are brainy/skilful, rather than reliant on brute force
3. they triumph over heroes who are often straight, macho, and otherwise patriarchy-like
[13/x]
Female villains give us a break from the generic man of fiction, and indeed triumph over him. They give us someone who doesn& #39;t play into the macho man mould that we& #39;re all brainwashed into trying to be while we grow up...
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[14/x]
... someone who doesn& #39;t need that strength or that brutal approach to her problems, who in fact spits in the grim, stubbly face of macho.
[15/x]
[15/x]
4. they& #39;re like us: firstly, they& #39;re often queer-coded. they& #39;re also often othered, troubled, hated by religion, and (surprisingly enough) villainised
What to add? Having stuff in common with a character helps us like her.
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What to add? Having stuff in common with a character helps us like her.
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It& #39;s sad that we& #39;re so consistently driven to empathise with characters who are evil (or at least bad) - the only room the patriarchy leaves for smart, confident, powerful people who aren& #39;t straight bros is in villainy.
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[17/x]
5. they are confident, unapologetic, powerful, sassy, in control, and have agency
This is the "qualities we want" bit. As gay men we grow up in a society that teaches us to be ashamed of ourselves and makes us feel powerless.
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This is the "qualities we want" bit. As gay men we grow up in a society that teaches us to be ashamed of ourselves and makes us feel powerless.
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Female villains give the finger to those ideas, and look incredible doing it.
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[19/x]
6. they have varied backstories that let us understand their villainous behaviour
And finally, this is actually about decent writing. Why do women get the varied backstories?
[20/x]
And finally, this is actually about decent writing. Why do women get the varied backstories?
[20/x]
Perhaps there& #39;s no need to keep them manly for the bros in the audience, freeing up such girly topics as everything not related to father-son issues.
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[21/x]
What to do about all this?
Support fiction that has sensitive men, queer people, characters with varied backstories, and people who don& #39;t all look like pin-ups. Maybe think twice about fiction that uncritically embraces the macho man.
[22/x]
Support fiction that has sensitive men, queer people, characters with varied backstories, and people who don& #39;t all look like pin-ups. Maybe think twice about fiction that uncritically embraces the macho man.
[22/x]
Where the queers talked about why gay men love female villains so much:
https://twitter.com/KharloKong/status/1249763966160646146
[23/23]">https://twitter.com/KharloKon...
https://twitter.com/KharloKong/status/1249763966160646146
[23/23]">https://twitter.com/KharloKon...
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