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New rule: demand every antizionist explicitly define the Zionism they are anti & what actual outcome they support.
I'm just so tired of strawman versions of Zionism & bad faith subversions of social justice using the history of #Passover
I'm just so tired of strawman versions of Zionism & bad faith subversions of social justice using the history of #Passover
Example #10,681:
https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248814788387442689?s=20
Also doesn't get to the actual outcome they'd support. But, honestly, if Wikipedia is their first source... Sigh. If you want non & antizionism to be taken seriously, don't argue out of ignorance & strawmen.
https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248814788387442689?s=20
Also doesn't get to the actual outcome they'd support. But, honestly, if Wikipedia is their first source... Sigh. If you want non & antizionism to be taken seriously, don't argue out of ignorance & strawmen.
So then what is citing Wikipedia but not reading the actual sources themselves? A 1st year of undergrad & rushing the midterm paper kind of take? I simply can't take you seriously with this kind of bad faith, especially given the QTing. https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248819959528120322?s=20
Let me play devil's advocate to myself for a moment:
I would be very interested to see an antizionist argument made based on the current Israeli government's actions since the end of 2014 that accounts for the Palestinians caught between Netanyahu & Hamas/Abbas.
I would be very interested to see an antizionist argument made based on the current Israeli government's actions since the end of 2014 that accounts for the Palestinians caught between Netanyahu & Hamas/Abbas.
But, then we have replies like this: https://twitter.com/andyratto/status/1248822773008474119?s=20
& it's clear that the 1st part of my thread is fundamental to avoiding pointless arguments like the kind being thrust in my mentions at this very moment.
& it's clear that the 1st part of my thread is fundamental to avoiding pointless arguments like the kind being thrust in my mentions at this very moment.
That said, I feel like I should expand my 1st tweet a bit.
When I say explicit, I would also include detailed, based on some kind of primary source, & that the outcome isn't just a vague "everyone's living in peace" but a specific new status quo.
When I say explicit, I would also include detailed, based on some kind of primary source, & that the outcome isn't just a vague "everyone's living in peace" but a specific new status quo.
For example: someone saying they want the dissolution of Israel as a Jewish state & have Israelis & Palestinians living side by side in peace *might* mean well, but hasn't provided anything serious or useful to the issue. Like, how specifically does antizionism make that happen?
Notably, even with all the books I've read, speakers I've heard, experts I've listened to, places in Israel & Palestine I've seen, & people on-the-ground I've talked with, I've yet to get anything remotely like a serious peace plan from online antizionists. (Or in-person ones.)
This doesn't necessarily mean they don't exist, or that there aren't antizionists capable of providing one. But it's definitely something lacking among antizionist movements. Big on slogans & signage but missing the actual work of an alternative. Let alone a viable one.
Which brings me back to my original point - because of the constant smearing & eliding of what Zionism is (not to mention the different flavors of Zionist expression) coupled with the lack of serious details from antizionists, it's more necessary than ever to define our terms.
Maybe it won't result in any mutual respectful disagreement, but at least it'll make it easier to know who & what we're dealing with when we have these conversations. Maybe. Hopefully. Baruch HaShem & oy vey.
Here's another example of why defining terms is important. This person isn't even aware that Jews have been indigenous to Israel for thousands of years, let alone our history of persecution & expulsion. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248991357672226816?s=19
Their thread continues with more goysplaining of Jewish history under the guise of postcolonial theory that is more suited to deconstructing historical Wesern Imperialism rather than antisemitism & Zionism that has existed since before the Roman Empire. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248992114505125890?s=19
But the final tweet in their thread is even more egregious in misrepresenting the actual context & events that occurred immediately preceding & subsequent to 1948. But it does serve as a useful tool for the ignorance many people mistake for understanding. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248993947961221121?s=19
For comparison, tweets like this are classic arguments from incredulity. Of course, even a simple Google search disproves their fallacy.
https://twitter.com/Camusproject/status/1248997948056317952?s=19
https://twitter.com/Camusproject/status/1248997948056317952?s=19
Unfortunately, when their preconceived dogma is challenged by Jewish people, they resort to projection of their own failures rather than reckoning with them. An example of how some people's purported social justice regularly leaves out Jews. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1249002002572591104?s=19
2 examples of, at least, mostly honest antisemitism masquerading as antizionism.
https://twitter.com/badaccentdoer93/status/1248993472541007872?s=20 https://twitter.com/brkfstsanwich/status/1249006992368308224?s=20
https://twitter.com/badaccentdoer93/status/1248993472541007872?s=20 https://twitter.com/brkfstsanwich/status/1249006992368308224?s=20
I see this thread is getting more attention, including from Blue Checks who think they've won an argument by stuffing & stomping their own straw man. At least they're proving my point for me. https://twitter.com/RafiLetzter/status/1249070267349053441?s=19
Also, if you came to the conversation late & then don't want to read what you missed... Sorry not sorry, you're not here in good faith & not worth the time. https://twitter.com/Lefty_Jew/status/1249073109237260288?s=19
