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New rule: demand every antizionist explicitly define the Zionism they are anti & what actual outcome they support.
I& #39;m just so tired of strawman versions of Zionism & bad faith subversions of social justice using the history of #Passover
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I& #39;m just so tired of strawman versions of Zionism & bad faith subversions of social justice using the history of #Passover
Example #10,681:
https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248814788387442689?s=20
Also">https://twitter.com/Pale_0nto... doesn& #39;t get to the actual outcome they& #39;d support. But, honestly, if Wikipedia is their first source... Sigh. If you want non & antizionism to be taken seriously, don& #39;t argue out of ignorance & strawmen.
https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248814788387442689?s=20
Also">https://twitter.com/Pale_0nto... doesn& #39;t get to the actual outcome they& #39;d support. But, honestly, if Wikipedia is their first source... Sigh. If you want non & antizionism to be taken seriously, don& #39;t argue out of ignorance & strawmen.
So then what is citing Wikipedia but not reading the actual sources themselves? A 1st year of undergrad & rushing the midterm paper kind of take? I simply can& #39;t take you seriously with this kind of bad faith, especially given the QTing. https://twitter.com/Pale_0ntologist/status/1248819959528120322?s=20">https://twitter.com/Pale_0nto...
Let me play devil& #39;s advocate to myself for a moment:
I would be very interested to see an antizionist argument made based on the current Israeli government& #39;s actions since the end of 2014 that accounts for the Palestinians caught between Netanyahu & Hamas/Abbas.
I would be very interested to see an antizionist argument made based on the current Israeli government& #39;s actions since the end of 2014 that accounts for the Palestinians caught between Netanyahu & Hamas/Abbas.
But, then we have replies like this: https://twitter.com/andyratto/status/1248822773008474119?s=20
&">https://twitter.com/andyratto... it& #39;s clear that the 1st part of my thread is fundamental to avoiding pointless arguments like the kind being thrust in my mentions at this very moment.
&">https://twitter.com/andyratto... it& #39;s clear that the 1st part of my thread is fundamental to avoiding pointless arguments like the kind being thrust in my mentions at this very moment.
That said, I feel like I should expand my 1st tweet a bit.
When I say explicit, I would also include detailed, based on some kind of primary source, & that the outcome isn& #39;t just a vague "everyone& #39;s living in peace" but a specific new status quo.
When I say explicit, I would also include detailed, based on some kind of primary source, & that the outcome isn& #39;t just a vague "everyone& #39;s living in peace" but a specific new status quo.
For example: someone saying they want the dissolution of Israel as a Jewish state & have Israelis & Palestinians living side by side in peace *might* mean well, but hasn& #39;t provided anything serious or useful to the issue. Like, how specifically does antizionism make that happen?
Notably, even with all the books I& #39;ve read, speakers I& #39;ve heard, experts I& #39;ve listened to, places in Israel & Palestine I& #39;ve seen, & people on-the-ground I& #39;ve talked with, I& #39;ve yet to get anything remotely like a serious peace plan from online antizionists. (Or in-person ones.)
This doesn& #39;t necessarily mean they don& #39;t exist, or that there aren& #39;t antizionists capable of providing one. But it& #39;s definitely something lacking among antizionist movements. Big on slogans & signage but missing the actual work of an alternative. Let alone a viable one.
Which brings me back to my original point - because of the constant smearing & eliding of what Zionism is (not to mention the different flavors of Zionist expression) coupled with the lack of serious details from antizionists, it& #39;s more necessary than ever to define our terms.
Maybe it won& #39;t result in any mutual respectful disagreement, but at least it& #39;ll make it easier to know who & what we& #39;re dealing with when we have these conversations. Maybe. Hopefully. Baruch HaShem & oy vey.
Here& #39;s another example of why defining terms is important. This person isn& #39;t even aware that Jews have been indigenous to Israel for thousands of years, let alone our history of persecution & expulsion. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248991357672226816?s=19">https://twitter.com/kierontur...
Their thread continues with more goysplaining of Jewish history under the guise of postcolonial theory that is more suited to deconstructing historical Wesern Imperialism rather than antisemitism & Zionism that has existed since before the Roman Empire. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248992114505125890?s=19">https://twitter.com/kierontur...
But the final tweet in their thread is even more egregious in misrepresenting the actual context & events that occurred immediately preceding & subsequent to 1948. But it does serve as a useful tool for the ignorance many people mistake for understanding. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1248993947961221121?s=19">https://twitter.com/kierontur...
For comparison, tweets like this are classic arguments from incredulity. Of course, even a simple Google search disproves their fallacy.
https://twitter.com/Camusproject/status/1248997948056317952?s=19">https://twitter.com/Camusproj...
https://twitter.com/Camusproject/status/1248997948056317952?s=19">https://twitter.com/Camusproj...
Unfortunately, when their preconceived dogma is challenged by Jewish people, they resort to projection of their own failures rather than reckoning with them. An example of how some people& #39;s purported social justice regularly leaves out Jews. https://twitter.com/kieronturner95/status/1249002002572591104?s=19">https://twitter.com/kierontur...
2 examples of, at least, mostly honest antisemitism masquerading as antizionism.
https://twitter.com/badaccentdoer93/status/1248993472541007872?s=20">https://twitter.com/badaccent... https://twitter.com/brkfstsanwich/status/1249006992368308224?s=20">https://twitter.com/brkfstsan...
https://twitter.com/badaccentdoer93/status/1248993472541007872?s=20">https://twitter.com/badaccent... https://twitter.com/brkfstsanwich/status/1249006992368308224?s=20">https://twitter.com/brkfstsan...
I see this thread is getting more attention, including from Blue Checks who think they& #39;ve won an argument by stuffing & stomping their own straw man. At least they& #39;re proving my point for me. https://twitter.com/RafiLetzter/status/1249070267349053441?s=19">https://twitter.com/RafiLetzt...
Also, if you came to the conversation late & then don& #39;t want to read what you missed... Sorry not sorry, you& #39;re not here in good faith & not worth the time. https://twitter.com/Lefty_Jew/status/1249073109237260288?s=19">https://twitter.com/Lefty_Jew...
